Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
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Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Guest: Pat | Posted: Mar 24, 2009 12:09 AM
]
Well I'd like to see some consistency in the scheduling, and have the teams in a pool play each other once. And then - and only then - work out whether any play offs are necessary. If they'd done this, Australia might have made it to the second round instead of Mexico (Australia thrashed Mexico in their first encounter, but they didn't get to play South Africa, a game they presumably would have won as well).
But I agree with you on the pool matchups. Mix 'em round a bit and have some variety, instead of the Korea-Japan saga we've been seeing this year.
But I agree with you on the pool matchups. Mix 'em round a bit and have some variety, instead of the Korea-Japan saga we've been seeing this year.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Guest: N26 | Posted: Mar 25, 2009 10:01 PM
]
I think Japanese fans in the US should stop banging on the thunder sticks! They look Korean! Besides Japanese fans are going away from the thunder sticks, especially Lotte, Yomiuri, Yokohama and other fans. In Tokyo Dome you hardly saw anyone banging on the thunder sticks whereas in US the Japanese fans were banging on the thunder sticks which looked exactly Korean!
Fans should learn some basic chants. For instance, when Aoki was batting in the Dome they were playing the Aoki song, but then after that they were yelling "Kattobase Aoki" when it should have been "Ute, Ute, Aoki!" They also need to come up with a song whenever Japan scores a run and a hit. Lotte has a great song whenever they score a run. Hanshin has the classic song whenever they get a hit.
Fans should learn some basic chants. For instance, when Aoki was batting in the Dome they were playing the Aoki song, but then after that they were yelling "Kattobase Aoki" when it should have been "Ute, Ute, Aoki!" They also need to come up with a song whenever Japan scores a run and a hit. Lotte has a great song whenever they score a run. Hanshin has the classic song whenever they get a hit.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: No.1BayFan | Posted: Mar 26, 2009 8:54 AM
| YOK Fan
]
I know. I was sitting in the outfield for the entire Tokyo Round and I actually complained about Aoki's chant for that very same reason to one of the Ouendan guys and they kind of gave me this blank stare and totally avoided giving me an answer. But most people were good at doing all the chants though despite the fact that it got the loudest whenever any Yomiuri player came up to bat.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Guest: Kamachi | Posted: Mar 24, 2009 2:27 AM
]
I agree with the idea of moving the top two teams to different pools in subsequent rounds.
I'd like to go back to the round robin format. That way every team has a chance to play every other team. It would be more interesting, especially to the fans of the lower tier teams.
I'd also like to see all the games played in one country (Qualification rounds could be in host countries). This would keep the off days to a minimum and reduce issues related to jetlag or whatever.
Finally, and maybe this is a bridge too far, but since this is an MLB event, I would like to see the winner of the WBC be granted a three game series with the World Series champion in their country about a week or two after the MLB season ends. This allows the win to mean something. The winner gets to have the MLB champions tour their country (just imagine this being South Africa or Netherlands) which will grow interest in that country. And, with MLB players still in top form, they could face the WBC champ just to show who really is the true "world champ."
Of course, that could be hard if, say, the Red Sox and Japan are the winners - does Daisuke pitch for team Japan or the Sox? But it would be an intriguing way to make the WBC title mean something. And, I don't think it is too far off base since I can still remember the days when no one watched the All Star Game and Selig decided to base home field advantage in the World Series on it to grow interest in the event.
I'd like to go back to the round robin format. That way every team has a chance to play every other team. It would be more interesting, especially to the fans of the lower tier teams.
I'd also like to see all the games played in one country (Qualification rounds could be in host countries). This would keep the off days to a minimum and reduce issues related to jetlag or whatever.
Finally, and maybe this is a bridge too far, but since this is an MLB event, I would like to see the winner of the WBC be granted a three game series with the World Series champion in their country about a week or two after the MLB season ends. This allows the win to mean something. The winner gets to have the MLB champions tour their country (just imagine this being South Africa or Netherlands) which will grow interest in that country. And, with MLB players still in top form, they could face the WBC champ just to show who really is the true "world champ."
Of course, that could be hard if, say, the Red Sox and Japan are the winners - does Daisuke pitch for team Japan or the Sox? But it would be an intriguing way to make the WBC title mean something. And, I don't think it is too far off base since I can still remember the days when no one watched the All Star Game and Selig decided to base home field advantage in the World Series on it to grow interest in the event.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Guest: Luigi | Posted: Mar 24, 2009 5:39 PM
]
- [...] does Daisuke pitch for team Japan or the Sox [...]
Imagine if he pitches for both teams! He will wear a Red Sox hat/uniform and pitch for Red Sox, then in-between innings, a bat-boy will bring out a Team Japan hat and jersey he can wear on top and then he will pitch for Japan. The problem is he might be gone after 2 innings due to pitch count!
Imagine if he pitches for both teams! He will wear a Red Sox hat/uniform and pitch for Red Sox, then in-between innings, a bat-boy will bring out a Team Japan hat and jersey he can wear on top and then he will pitch for Japan. The problem is he might be gone after 2 innings due to pitch count!
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Mar 24, 2009 6:49 PM
| HAN Fan
]
The WBC as it currently stands is a genuine world championship (and the name could easily be changed to the 'World Baseball Cup'). However, certain things do need to change. Japan playing Korea 5 times was ridiculous and more thought needs to be given to avoiding this. The use of a positional table with one agreed tie-breaker number (it could be ERA, strikes, anything) would be a good step forward. The top team automatically goes to a different pool than the second team. Likewise for the second pool a tie-breaker number is used and the teams are sent to different semi-finals.
As for the suggestion that the American domestic champion should face the World Champion this is not a workable suggestion. It degrades the WBC to an adjunct of the MLB which is not a good way to promote baseball throughout the world. If there is a need for the American champions to play other teams internationally then this should be on the basis of a World Club Championship.
As for the suggestion that the American domestic champion should face the World Champion this is not a workable suggestion. It degrades the WBC to an adjunct of the MLB which is not a good way to promote baseball throughout the world. If there is a need for the American champions to play other teams internationally then this should be on the basis of a World Club Championship.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Guest: Luigi | Posted: Mar 24, 2009 11:00 PM
]
The biggest problem with the current format is definitely the inclusion of the seeding game. I am guessing the organizers did this for extra attendance and $$$ but they are basically meaningless since both teams have already advanced and all the games really do is increase the risk for additional injuries. That's not really what organizers should want, especially since the tournament is already shunned by dozens of players and management due to fear of getting hurt. Murata was injured, too, in a seeding game and now he will be out for 6 weeks.
Like the above fan said, determine the seeds by runs scored, ERA, or just let the 2-0 team be #1 and the 2-1 team be #2 seed. If this WBC didn't have seeding games, Korea and Japan would've played each other only 3 times instead of 5; not that I am complaining since I love the rivalry between these 2, but I am guessing most of the viewers not Japanese or Korean felt things got a bit stale.
Like the above fan said, determine the seeds by runs scored, ERA, or just let the 2-0 team be #1 and the 2-1 team be #2 seed. If this WBC didn't have seeding games, Korea and Japan would've played each other only 3 times instead of 5; not that I am complaining since I love the rivalry between these 2, but I am guessing most of the viewers not Japanese or Korean felt things got a bit stale.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Guest: gotigersredsox | Posted: Mar 24, 2009 11:16 PM
]
I agree with most of the suggestions here and what I would most like to see is:
- As others said, no teams meeting 5 times in a single tournament! Best of 5 is exciting, but a mix of meaningful and meaningless games just means the last team to have a good game wins.
- The finals outside of the US. Of course this may make MLB players even less likely to participate, but it needs to be done eventually. Japan has won both WBC so far. Bring the games here!
- Most importantly, the station that broadcasts the games here needs to change to a different theme song than "Separate Ways" by Journey! I can't get that awful song out of my head now.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Mar 25, 2009 3:35 AM
]
Luigi, I love to watch competitive games (regardless if they are the same 2 teams); and if you look at the Japan/Korea "Best of Five" series in the tournament, IT WAS CLASSIC AND EPIC!!! (Barring the 1st game.) And it went to show that the 2 most deserving teams went to the finals.
FUN FACT: The only team to defeat Korea in the 2009 WBC was Japan (3 times); and the only team to defeat Japan in the 2009 WBC was ......YOU GUESED IT......Korea (2 times). Goes to show the passion and respect these two countries have for this sport. (THAT IS WHY I LOVE NPB!).
But back to the thread - this thread was not intended to criticize the current WBC format; but to share ideas that we think would make it better.
I do LOVE the idea that gotigersredsox points out; the championship should be defended in the champs' territory. It gives the game of baseball more meaning and the players/countries an extra edge to try and bring the sport to their home. Just imagine what it would do for countries like Netherlands; all while expanding the game's market globally - BRILLIANT!
FUN FACT: The only team to defeat Korea in the 2009 WBC was Japan (3 times); and the only team to defeat Japan in the 2009 WBC was ......YOU GUESED IT......Korea (2 times). Goes to show the passion and respect these two countries have for this sport. (THAT IS WHY I LOVE NPB!).
But back to the thread - this thread was not intended to criticize the current WBC format; but to share ideas that we think would make it better.
I do LOVE the idea that gotigersredsox points out; the championship should be defended in the champs' territory. It gives the game of baseball more meaning and the players/countries an extra edge to try and bring the sport to their home. Just imagine what it would do for countries like Netherlands; all while expanding the game's market globally - BRILLIANT!
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Mar 25, 2009 9:28 AM
| HAN Fan
]
- But back to the thread - this thread was not intended to criticize the current WBC format;
I would hazard the comment that any thread inviting suggestions for improvement is by implication critical of the status quo. For a world championship the match up between different teams who would not normally play against each other could be said to be a major element. One might even go further and say that this is the main reason to watch a world championship - the excitement of rare encounters and new challenges. Even though some teams may play each other more than once, 5 times is far too many for the type of format that the WBC is.
I would hazard the comment that any thread inviting suggestions for improvement is by implication critical of the status quo. For a world championship the match up between different teams who would not normally play against each other could be said to be a major element. One might even go further and say that this is the main reason to watch a world championship - the excitement of rare encounters and new challenges. Even though some teams may play each other more than once, 5 times is far too many for the type of format that the WBC is.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Guest: T Moore | Posted: Mar 25, 2009 8:29 AM
]
It might work to play the games outside the USA in the near future. Why? The players from every country should be involved in the decision.
I think an 8 team final in Asia next time would work, played it in 7 days.
A mid October Classic would be great. But harder to get player interested in IMO.
I think an 8 team final in Asia next time would work, played it in 7 days.
A mid October Classic would be great. But harder to get player interested in IMO.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: number9 | Posted: Mar 25, 2009 5:42 PM
]
24 teams are supposed to be up for consideration for the next WBC in 2013, with possibly a play-in round for the weaker teams and the top 8-12 nations from 09 WBC / World Rankings being seeded teams entering the tournament in a later round. Regional qualifiers would make it a truly global competition as well, instead of it being an invitational as it is.
If the locations were more concentrated, then mixing the teams from different pools to avoid too many games against the same team would work. But as it were, not knowing whether a team was flying from Asia to the east coast or the west coast would make a huge difference to the players and for the fans buying tickets and reserving accommodations and flights.
I don't think the tournament is popular enough yet to be held in one country like the soccer World Cup. There were simply too many empty seats for games not involving the host nation (except for the final round in LA), though attendance improved from 3 years ago. Some interesting attendance analysis was done here [Baseball Analysts].
I like the double-elimination format, just remove the seeding game and make the 2-0 team the first seed and 2-1 team the second team. Completely reasonable, compacts the schedule (less whining from MLB teams and players), and removes less exciting games from the schedule. The problem with a 4 team round robin in baseball is that tie breakers become too esoteric. They were runs allowed average in 2006. You can't use run differential because of the mercy rule.
If the locations were more concentrated, then mixing the teams from different pools to avoid too many games against the same team would work. But as it were, not knowing whether a team was flying from Asia to the east coast or the west coast would make a huge difference to the players and for the fans buying tickets and reserving accommodations and flights.
I don't think the tournament is popular enough yet to be held in one country like the soccer World Cup. There were simply too many empty seats for games not involving the host nation (except for the final round in LA), though attendance improved from 3 years ago. Some interesting attendance analysis was done here [Baseball Analysts].
I like the double-elimination format, just remove the seeding game and make the 2-0 team the first seed and 2-1 team the second team. Completely reasonable, compacts the schedule (less whining from MLB teams and players), and removes less exciting games from the schedule. The problem with a 4 team round robin in baseball is that tie breakers become too esoteric. They were runs allowed average in 2006. You can't use run differential because of the mercy rule.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Guest: Pat | Posted: Mar 26, 2009 12:47 AM
]
- The problem with a 4 team round robin in baseball is that tie breakers become too esoteric.
The problem isn't the round robin itself, though. Instead of tiebreakers, why not just have a playoff game or two after the regular round robin games. A doubleheader if time is short. Surely that's not too hard to organize. Forget double-elimination - base it purely on wins and losses.
The problem isn't the round robin itself, though. Instead of tiebreakers, why not just have a playoff game or two after the regular round robin games. A doubleheader if time is short. Surely that's not too hard to organize. Forget double-elimination - base it purely on wins and losses.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: number9 | Posted: Mar 26, 2009 3:16 PM
]
Do you have 3 playoff games if 3 teams are tied with the same record? (It happened a couple of times in 2006, hence the move to double-elimination for 2009.) It's just not realistic logistically.
Re: Ideas for Future WBC ... Anyone?
[ Author: Guest: Pat | Posted: Mar 26, 2009 8:08 PM
]
- Do you have 3 playoff games if 3 teams are tied with the same record?
Yes, or at least two games. Make both of them elimination, with the order of play determined by stats in some way. It's not difficult to organize - they just need to leave time in the schedule for it.
Yes, or at least two games. Make both of them elimination, with the order of play determined by stats in some way. It's not difficult to organize - they just need to leave time in the schedule for it.
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Well I have an idea that can help this issue and even set-up some intriguing match-ups (IMO). Here are a few Ideas:
I like the current format, but the 1st change I would make is that the number 1 seeds of pools A & B go into pool 1 (2nd Round) with the number 2 seeds of pools C & D; and the number 1 seeds of pools C & D go into pool 2 (2nd Round) with the number 2 seeds of pools A & B.
This guarantees no team will face each other more than three times; with the third match being in semi-final or final round. And we would see different matches we did not get a chance to see; like US vs. Korea, Netherlands vs. Japan, Mexico vs. Venezuela, Cuba vs. US, and so on.
Another idea would be, if more teams are to be added (as rumored) they should qualify within their regions and earn a spot in the WBC. This would give baseball a chance to grow in European markets were Futbol (Soccer) is king. Not to say baseball will ever reach that status, but the market is definitely there.
Get rid of the International Extra Inning Rule (THAT IS NOT BASEBALL). And players should be committed and be ready for the WBC; not use it as Spring Training. Like Oswalt, he was ready from the get go (he had a bad day vs. Japan) but has been pitching great.
The Netherlands came in prepared and proved it; win or lose they played great every single game. I loved watching them play because you knew it was going to be a good game and they made a name for themselves.
I thought Mexico would be the biggest surprise of the WBC; but it was the Netherlands taking that honor.