Jeff Williams at Tigers
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Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Guest: Hiroshi | Posted: Nov 12, 2009 6:59 PM
]
"This is not the way Tigers fans want to remember this fine pitcher but this is the way we have to remember him - as a possible cheat."
Oh this is a sad topic. Where do we start with the list? So many tainted players. This is not just a foreign problem. There were many rumours among Japanese fans from good sources that a certain Pacific League team that had much success in the first section of this decade had a team culture of using steroids.
Japanese baseball has acted too slowly on drug use and I apologize for this.
Oh this is a sad topic. Where do we start with the list? So many tainted players. This is not just a foreign problem. There were many rumours among Japanese fans from good sources that a certain Pacific League team that had much success in the first section of this decade had a team culture of using steroids.
Japanese baseball has acted too slowly on drug use and I apologize for this.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Guest: N26 | Posted: Nov 13, 2009 4:16 PM
]
What Pacific team are you referring to Hiroshi-san? Softbank? Seibu?
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Guest: G. Blanston | Posted: Nov 18, 2009 12:31 AM
]
"Furthermore, Williams has never tested positive for steroids, both in the Olympics and NPB."
This is enough for me and for most Tigers fans. How can you condemn someone when they weren't even busted? Doing drugs in America is different from doing drugs in Japan. You are being overly harsh on a player who contributed much to Hanshin during his career (where he, and I quote you again, "never tested positive for steroids, both in the Olympics and NPB").
Thank you Jeff Williams for all of your efforts and contributions. This is what real Hanshin Tigers fans will remember you for.
This is enough for me and for most Tigers fans. How can you condemn someone when they weren't even busted? Doing drugs in America is different from doing drugs in Japan. You are being overly harsh on a player who contributed much to Hanshin during his career (where he, and I quote you again, "never tested positive for steroids, both in the Olympics and NPB").
Thank you Jeff Williams for all of your efforts and contributions. This is what real Hanshin Tigers fans will remember you for.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 18, 2009 8:22 AM
| HAN Fan
]
If you read the original post you will note that I am not condeming Williams but indicating that there is a suspicion that all is not well. We have testimony that Williams bought steroids and a reproduction of the cheque he paid for the substances. Therefore there is prima facie evidence that Williams has had some involvement with steroids in his career. To what extent is not clear but it exists and must remain as a question mark especially as the steroids were purchased after he came to Japan. Why were they purchased? We do not know and thus we cannot take Williams' denials at face value. We cannot ignore the evidence presented in the Mitchell report and until Williams presents an explanation his efforts at Tigers must be regarded with suspicion.
As for the quote that Williams never tested positive for steroids this is true but then neither did Marion Jones and she was taking a lot. Denials and tests are not 100% and until the Balco scandal broke there were several drugs which did not register on the tests. There were also ways to mask drug taking which would beat the tests. Furthermore before 2006 (I believe) NPB did not test for drugs. You may wish to bury your head in the sand but this is not a sound approach to adopt. I do not know if Williams cheated and in fact I hope that there was some other explanation but I have to acknowledge that he may have done so. If this is the case he has cheated Tigers fans by pretending to be what he isn't. To be honest with you real Tigers fans don't want cheats - we want players who are honest and play to their best ability without artificial enhancement. There is evidence that Wiliams bought steriods and there is no explanation from him why. This is a sad blot on his career with Tigers and until he explains the question mark will not go away.
As for the quote that Williams never tested positive for steroids this is true but then neither did Marion Jones and she was taking a lot. Denials and tests are not 100% and until the Balco scandal broke there were several drugs which did not register on the tests. There were also ways to mask drug taking which would beat the tests. Furthermore before 2006 (I believe) NPB did not test for drugs. You may wish to bury your head in the sand but this is not a sound approach to adopt. I do not know if Williams cheated and in fact I hope that there was some other explanation but I have to acknowledge that he may have done so. If this is the case he has cheated Tigers fans by pretending to be what he isn't. To be honest with you real Tigers fans don't want cheats - we want players who are honest and play to their best ability without artificial enhancement. There is evidence that Wiliams bought steriods and there is no explanation from him why. This is a sad blot on his career with Tigers and until he explains the question mark will not go away.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Guest: G. Blanston | Posted: Nov 18, 2009 3:10 PM
]
Does the Mitchell Report have any authority in Japan? If a player breaks a rule in MLB does that mean he should be held in suspicion in Japan? Was Williams ever busted in Japan? Did Williams ever get caught breaking rules in Japan? There is such a thing as innocent until proven guilty. While that doesn't always work in Japan (often an arrest or infraction is automatically associated with guilt), has Williams ever been charged with anything in Japan? While I can't speak for all Hanshin fans, my friends remember Williams for his pitching and not for any suspicions of cheating.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 18, 2009 4:42 PM
| HAN Fan
]
The answer to your question is yes it does. The revelations were splashed all over the press and Williams was questioned by Minami-president about them. He denied ever having taken steroids and his denials were accepted. No explanation was given about the evidence presented in the report. Furthermore, Williams cheque is dated for the post season of 2004, when he was playing in Japan not MLB. Therefore, it is of relevance to his period at Tigers.
There is evidence that Williams bought steriods and it is fairly conclusive. There is no evidence that he took them but one must allow the possibility that he did. There has been no explanation of the cheque or the purchase and the suspicion must remain that the purchase was for Williams use. This is a suspicion based on available and clear evidence and tarnishes Williams record. There may be an alternative explanation for the purchase - it hasn't been presented and until it is Wiliams is suspect. No ifs or buts or justifications, he purchased steroids. Did he use them? I don't know but I cannot accept his denials given that all steroid users deny use. Note that I only label Williams 'a possible cheat' but this is a possibility that must be considered and any appraisal of his career must include this.
There is evidence that Williams bought steriods and it is fairly conclusive. There is no evidence that he took them but one must allow the possibility that he did. There has been no explanation of the cheque or the purchase and the suspicion must remain that the purchase was for Williams use. This is a suspicion based on available and clear evidence and tarnishes Williams record. There may be an alternative explanation for the purchase - it hasn't been presented and until it is Wiliams is suspect. No ifs or buts or justifications, he purchased steroids. Did he use them? I don't know but I cannot accept his denials given that all steroid users deny use. Note that I only label Williams 'a possible cheat' but this is a possibility that must be considered and any appraisal of his career must include this.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Guest: G. Blanston | Posted: Nov 18, 2009 8:25 PM
]
Yes, I remember the all the news. But the Japanese media tends to over-blow these kinds of issues. Especially drug-related. So I am not so sure that this gives the report in authority in Japan or in NPB matters.
"...Williams was questioned by Minami-president about them. He denied ever having taken steroids and his denials were accepted." Why did Minami-president accept his denials? Why was Williams allowed to stay on the team? Is Hanshin involved in some sort of cover-up? So should we be suspicious of Hanshin now? Perhaps Minami-president had access to information that we do not?
Has Williams ever been officially charged with wrong-doing in Japan? We can't even apply innocent-until-proven-guilty if he hasn't been charged with anything.
I'd like to hear from other readers about this issue. What do Hanshin fans - nihonjin and gaikokujin - think about Williams?
"...Williams was questioned by Minami-president about them. He denied ever having taken steroids and his denials were accepted." Why did Minami-president accept his denials? Why was Williams allowed to stay on the team? Is Hanshin involved in some sort of cover-up? So should we be suspicious of Hanshin now? Perhaps Minami-president had access to information that we do not?
Has Williams ever been officially charged with wrong-doing in Japan? We can't even apply innocent-until-proven-guilty if he hasn't been charged with anything.
I'd like to hear from other readers about this issue. What do Hanshin fans - nihonjin and gaikokujin - think about Williams?
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 18, 2009 9:10 PM
| HAN Fan
]
No one tested then in Japan. Do you dump one of your star pitchers or do you brush the matter under the carpet? Especially if you can't prove anything. Tigers won the pennant in 2005 with Williams assistance and a lot of money flowed into the Hanshin coffers. Remember we are not saying that Williams took steroids but that there is a possibility that he did. Because of this possibility we cannot take his record at face value. This situation will persist until the purchase is explained. There is the uncomfortable fact that Williams bought steroids. As I have stated the evidence is prima facie and has not been explained to any degree. The existence of an official charge or not is a red herring, it is not relevant.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Guest: JC | Posted: Nov 19, 2009 12:17 AM
]
" If a player breaks a rule in MLB does that mean he should be held in suspicion in Japan? Was Williams ever busted in Japan? Did Williams ever get caught breaking rules in Japan? There is such a thing as innocent until proven guilty."
I couldn't agree with you more Mr. Blanston.
Where do you start if you just suspect players? Innocent until proven guilty. Thanks for your fine effort Jeff. Since you ask, Christopher is the only Hanshin fan I personally know of who feels this way but then he has always been somewhat "unique" regarding his view of the game.
I couldn't agree with you more Mr. Blanston.
Where do you start if you just suspect players? Innocent until proven guilty. Thanks for your fine effort Jeff. Since you ask, Christopher is the only Hanshin fan I personally know of who feels this way but then he has always been somewhat "unique" regarding his view of the game.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Guest: G. Blanston | Posted: Nov 19, 2009 12:31 AM
]
So you are suggesting suspicion regarding the Hanshin management? So, hypothetically, if Williams is somehow proven to have taken steroids, will you condemn the whole franchise?
"The existence of an official charge or not is a red herring, it is not relevant."
Since when is breaking or not breaking the rules, or the law, not relevant? Isn't that the issue here?
"Especially if you can't prove anything."
Yes, especially when you can't prove anything. Suspicion alone is not enough... That is why there are trials and hearings. Have there even been any for Williams?
Sorry, but your logic escapes me. I do hope other readers weigh in on this...
"The existence of an official charge or not is a red herring, it is not relevant."
Since when is breaking or not breaking the rules, or the law, not relevant? Isn't that the issue here?
"Especially if you can't prove anything."
Yes, especially when you can't prove anything. Suspicion alone is not enough... That is why there are trials and hearings. Have there even been any for Williams?
Sorry, but your logic escapes me. I do hope other readers weigh in on this...
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 19, 2009 10:06 AM
| HAN Fan
]
There seems to be considerable misunderstanding here. Firstly, Japanese standards on drugs were stricter than the US. Japan adhered to the WADA requirements - so any steroid taking was clearly against the rules of the sport. Secondly Williams purchased the steroids when he was playing in NPB NOT MLB. Williams joined Tigers in 2003 and the cheque was issued in 2004. He has only just finished his NPB career and during that career purchased steroids. These are the facts.
With regard to the Hanshin management - they probably did not want to go deeply into the issue. Williams denied taking steroids (and it may be that he was telling the truth) and that was good enough for them. They didn't have testing in 2004 and to push for clarification would probably lose them a pitcher crucial to their plans. It was easier to accept the denials and move on.
However, Williams purchased steroids and therefore there is naturally suspicion that he used them. This is not a case of using a cold remedy with a suspect ingredient but a clear purchase of performance enhancing substances. You seem unable to grasp this point and the question that must follow - why were they purchased? Neither of you seems to understand that this is not an innocent purchase. Neither of you seems able to understand the problem of drugs in sport either. It is not a situation where you can give people the benefit of the doubt because they will lie and cheat to an alarming degree. Marion Jones never tested positive (like Wiliiams) but was on steroids her whole career. There is ample evidence concerning Clemens and steroid use and still he denies it. Agassi lied about drug use. Just yesterday the winner of the 1500 metres in the Beijing Olympics was stripped of his medal because of drug abuse. The sport of cycling has almost lost all its credibility because of doping. This is the background and whilst it does not suggest that Williams actually took steroids he is automatically suspect as he purchased them. As he purchased them during the time he was with Tigers it is relevant to his time in Japan. Williams may have cheated and that is a given - he is suspect and nothing you can say will alter this. Burying your head in the sand was the approach adopted by MLB and look what happened. This is what both of you are doing and it doesn't work.
Once again Wiliams bought steroids DURING his time with Tigers - that makes him a possible cheat and that is the reality.
With regard to the Hanshin management - they probably did not want to go deeply into the issue. Williams denied taking steroids (and it may be that he was telling the truth) and that was good enough for them. They didn't have testing in 2004 and to push for clarification would probably lose them a pitcher crucial to their plans. It was easier to accept the denials and move on.
However, Williams purchased steroids and therefore there is naturally suspicion that he used them. This is not a case of using a cold remedy with a suspect ingredient but a clear purchase of performance enhancing substances. You seem unable to grasp this point and the question that must follow - why were they purchased? Neither of you seems to understand that this is not an innocent purchase. Neither of you seems able to understand the problem of drugs in sport either. It is not a situation where you can give people the benefit of the doubt because they will lie and cheat to an alarming degree. Marion Jones never tested positive (like Wiliiams) but was on steroids her whole career. There is ample evidence concerning Clemens and steroid use and still he denies it. Agassi lied about drug use. Just yesterday the winner of the 1500 metres in the Beijing Olympics was stripped of his medal because of drug abuse. The sport of cycling has almost lost all its credibility because of doping. This is the background and whilst it does not suggest that Williams actually took steroids he is automatically suspect as he purchased them. As he purchased them during the time he was with Tigers it is relevant to his time in Japan. Williams may have cheated and that is a given - he is suspect and nothing you can say will alter this. Burying your head in the sand was the approach adopted by MLB and look what happened. This is what both of you are doing and it doesn't work.
Once again Wiliams bought steroids DURING his time with Tigers - that makes him a possible cheat and that is the reality.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Guest: G. Blanston | Posted: Nov 19, 2009 3:36 PM
]
If one disagrees with you one's head is in the sand? You really don't answer my questions. You provide lots of examples of athletes with drug problems. Your examples have either admitted to use, been tested positive for use and/or participated in hearings about use. Williams has denied use, has never been tested positive, has never been officially accused and has never participated in any hearing or trial. This is exceptional because as you say, the Japanese are much more strict about drugs.
"Neither of you seems able to understand the problem of drugs in sport either. It is not a situation where you can give people the benefit of the doubt because they will lie and cheat to an alarming degree." Oh do we really want to open this can of worms in this forum?
If Hanshin believed Williams, why can't you? Your discourse is full of words like seems, probably, suggests and may. Can't you entertain that perhaps Hanshin is privy to more information than us/you and has good reason to believe Williams?
"Neither of you seems able to understand the problem of drugs in sport either. It is not a situation where you can give people the benefit of the doubt because they will lie and cheat to an alarming degree." Oh do we really want to open this can of worms in this forum?
If Hanshin believed Williams, why can't you? Your discourse is full of words like seems, probably, suggests and may. Can't you entertain that perhaps Hanshin is privy to more information than us/you and has good reason to believe Williams?
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 19, 2009 4:34 PM
| HAN Fan
]
Williams bought steroids. Take a look at the reproduction of his cheque on pp228 of the Mitchell report. This is the starting point for any suspicion. None of the other stuff matters - there is evidence that Williams bought steroids. I will emphasise again - Williams bought steroids. He paid $1,820 dollars for Anavar and Dianabol. What is it about this purchase that you are unable to understand? In fact non of your posts have addressed this issue at all.
What happened to the steroids and what use they were put to is unknown which is why I label Williams only a possible cheat. You can disagree all you want but the fact remains he purchased banned substances. Without any explanation of an alternative use the possibility exists that he used them and lied about using them. This is not unknown behaviour for sports people taking drugs. Williams has not explained the purchase and this is sufficient reason to doubt his denials. The evidence is there and cannot be ignored - look at the evidence and tell me why Williams bought steroids.
What happened to the steroids and what use they were put to is unknown which is why I label Williams only a possible cheat. You can disagree all you want but the fact remains he purchased banned substances. Without any explanation of an alternative use the possibility exists that he used them and lied about using them. This is not unknown behaviour for sports people taking drugs. Williams has not explained the purchase and this is sufficient reason to doubt his denials. The evidence is there and cannot be ignored - look at the evidence and tell me why Williams bought steroids.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Guest: Hiroshi | Posted: Nov 19, 2009 7:22 PM
]
Hello N26. One of those teams you mentioned is correct. I dare not say their name as I do not want trouble brought to this site. I am just the messesnger. It is just what many other fans have thought about that team.
I am sad to see this is causing problems to visitors of this site. For me, I will always appreciate Mr. Williams because I like what he did here but if somebody is angry, I can understand and will listen to them. We have difference of opinion. That is all.
I am sad to see this is causing problems to visitors of this site. For me, I will always appreciate Mr. Williams because I like what he did here but if somebody is angry, I can understand and will listen to them. We have difference of opinion. That is all.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Guest: G. Blanston | Posted: Nov 19, 2009 7:58 PM
]
No one is disputing what is included in the Mitchell Report regarding Jeff Williams. Yes, it appears suspicious. But it has not been suspicious enough to initiate any legal hearing or action on the part of NBP.
USA Today
Ripple effect felt in Japan over Mitchell Report
Updated 12/24/2007
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2007-12-23-japan-mitchell-report_N.htm
Relevant quotes from the article:
Nobody named in the [Mitchell] report has had a positive test in Japan.
"Our monitoring of the use of banned substances has been working properly," says Yasuchika Negoro, acting commissioner of Nippon Professional Baseball, which runs the country's two major leagues. "About two-thirds of the NPB-related players mentioned by the report have received tests and there have been no positive cases, so I don't see any problems at all."
Cabrera, Williams and infielder Adam Riggs, another current Japanese league player named in the Mitchell Report, have passed all their drug tests in Japan.
"I trust him," Hanshin club president Nobuo Minami said of Williams, who passed drug tests in Japan and by the Olympic committee in his native Australia, for whom he won a silver medal in the 2006 Olympics. "He flatly denied the use of any banned substances and said he is ready to accept fresh checkups at any time."
Why did he buy the steroids? What did he do with the steroids? There are countless explanations. Williams' explanation was enough for NPB and Hanshin. If you continue this tirade against this player, then you have to take it up the ladder to Hanshin management and then the NPB. Are you willing to go this far? Is anybody else?
To reiterate: Williams purchasing steroids is one piece of evidence. Other factors have outweighed this single piece of evidence to the point where there has been no official charges, hearings or sanctions. Ideally the process should have been more transparent to erase any suspicions. But transparency isn't exactly a Japanese strong suit.
USA Today
Ripple effect felt in Japan over Mitchell Report
Updated 12/24/2007
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/2007-12-23-japan-mitchell-report_N.htm
Relevant quotes from the article:
Nobody named in the [Mitchell] report has had a positive test in Japan.
"Our monitoring of the use of banned substances has been working properly," says Yasuchika Negoro, acting commissioner of Nippon Professional Baseball, which runs the country's two major leagues. "About two-thirds of the NPB-related players mentioned by the report have received tests and there have been no positive cases, so I don't see any problems at all."
Cabrera, Williams and infielder Adam Riggs, another current Japanese league player named in the Mitchell Report, have passed all their drug tests in Japan.
"I trust him," Hanshin club president Nobuo Minami said of Williams, who passed drug tests in Japan and by the Olympic committee in his native Australia, for whom he won a silver medal in the 2006 Olympics. "He flatly denied the use of any banned substances and said he is ready to accept fresh checkups at any time."
Why did he buy the steroids? What did he do with the steroids? There are countless explanations. Williams' explanation was enough for NPB and Hanshin. If you continue this tirade against this player, then you have to take it up the ladder to Hanshin management and then the NPB. Are you willing to go this far? Is anybody else?
To reiterate: Williams purchasing steroids is one piece of evidence. Other factors have outweighed this single piece of evidence to the point where there has been no official charges, hearings or sanctions. Ideally the process should have been more transparent to erase any suspicions. But transparency isn't exactly a Japanese strong suit.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 19, 2009 8:33 PM
| HAN Fan
]
This is where the mistake occurs - Williams did not explain the steroids. He just denied the useage. There has been no explanation of the purchase at all. Do not confuse a denial with an explanation. I will refer you to Marion Jones again - no positive tests. Furthermore we cannot regard Negoro as a reliable commentator. He is the individual who stated when they introduced testing that Japanese players were clean and that testing was only for foreigners. The upshot is lack of hearings, charges or sanctions mean nothing.
Now I would suggest you go and re-read my piece on Williams very carefully. You will see that nowhere am I saying that he took steroids but that there is a cloud because he bought steroids. I am not saying Williams took steroids but that the possibility exists. Lack of evidence is not evidence of innocence and you would do well to fix this point in your mind. However, Williams purchased banned substances - that is a given and that is the only piece of evidence. Nothing else is evidence of steriod taking or otherwise. I have written a wharts and all appraisal of Williams. You will find that, as you spend time in Japan, all sorts of nasty little (and big) things get ignored and quietly swept under the carpet. There never was any serious investigation of whether Williams really did take steroids and no one bothered to ask the real question. Do not expect anything from NPB or from clubs and do not regard their investigations as serious. Hiroshi refers to a certain club where steroid taking was rife (and I know which club he was referring to). Where was the investigation? Now I think it is time for you to reveal your background - are you connected with Williams in any way?
Now I would suggest you go and re-read my piece on Williams very carefully. You will see that nowhere am I saying that he took steroids but that there is a cloud because he bought steroids. I am not saying Williams took steroids but that the possibility exists. Lack of evidence is not evidence of innocence and you would do well to fix this point in your mind. However, Williams purchased banned substances - that is a given and that is the only piece of evidence. Nothing else is evidence of steriod taking or otherwise. I have written a wharts and all appraisal of Williams. You will find that, as you spend time in Japan, all sorts of nasty little (and big) things get ignored and quietly swept under the carpet. There never was any serious investigation of whether Williams really did take steroids and no one bothered to ask the real question. Do not expect anything from NPB or from clubs and do not regard their investigations as serious. Hiroshi refers to a certain club where steroid taking was rife (and I know which club he was referring to). Where was the investigation? Now I think it is time for you to reveal your background - are you connected with Williams in any way?
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Guest: G. Blanston | Posted: Nov 20, 2009 12:42 AM
]
You are a real hoot, Christopher. Because I disagree with you and ask you to clarify your logic/thinking, first my head is stuck in the sand, and now I must have some connection to Williams?
Wrong on both accounts.
I am a long term permanent resident of Osaka, Japan and tora-kichi since I got here due to the influence of my Japanese family and friends. When news of Williams' steroid purchase hit the media of course even die-hard Hanshin fans had doubts. But when nothing came of it, they soon forgot it like they do with so many other media allegations and faddish trends with no merit or worth. Williams is remembered for JFK and his contributions to the team.
Rather than getting personal let's stick to the issue, please. Can you not maturely respond to the opinions, questions and perspectives of others if they differ from yours?
One cannot continue to slander a player because of a single piece of suspicious evidence that has been forgot or dismissed by the principals involved. Go Tigers!
Wrong on both accounts.
I am a long term permanent resident of Osaka, Japan and tora-kichi since I got here due to the influence of my Japanese family and friends. When news of Williams' steroid purchase hit the media of course even die-hard Hanshin fans had doubts. But when nothing came of it, they soon forgot it like they do with so many other media allegations and faddish trends with no merit or worth. Williams is remembered for JFK and his contributions to the team.
Rather than getting personal let's stick to the issue, please. Can you not maturely respond to the opinions, questions and perspectives of others if they differ from yours?
One cannot continue to slander a player because of a single piece of suspicious evidence that has been forgot or dismissed by the principals involved. Go Tigers!
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 20, 2009 8:17 AM
| HAN Fan
]
The reason I asked the question was because your defence of Williams was so strong it suggested much more than a passing interest. Now as for logic we have the following fact - Williams bought banned substances for which there is solid evidence. We also know that he has denied all steroid use but as we also know denial is a common practice among athletes who have taken steroids and thus cannot be accepted at face value even though it may be true in Williams case. However, there has been no explanation of the purchase or what use it was put to (if any). It has not been dismissed, rather no one has addressed it at all. However, it still remains unexplained and it is still hanging over Williams. Any appraisal of his career needs to mention this point and the fact that it is not cleared up. Just because it drops out of public attention does not mean that it goes away. It is also not a faddish trend - it is a fact. You mention slander but there is no slander involved here. Williams did buy steroids. Without an adequate explanation of why this renders his career suspect. No explanation has been forthcoming and therefore there is a question mark over his time at Tigers. He is a possible cheat. However, it is only possible because there is no evidence he actually took the steroids. As you will see I have been very fair to Williams but also I have not brushed the issue of the purchase under the carpet. A final point, this is not an accidental purchase - it is a deliberate purchase, we are not talking about accidents we are talking about clear planning and intent. Your posts have indicated a willingness to stick your head in the sand and ignore this very uncomfortable piece of evidence. It is not personal abuse but an observation about your whole approach. The situation is that until there is an explanation the whole of Williams career at Tigers is under suspicion. Why? Because we do not and cannot know if he has been honest in his denials. That is the reality.
Re: Jeff Williams at Tigers
[ Author: ht_fan | Posted: Nov 20, 2009 11:10 AM
| HAN Fan
]
Just my .02: I agree with Christopher, all this casts a shadow on Williams. One of the reasons why I like NPB over MLB is that the vast majority of NPB players doesn't look on steroids (and I'm afraid the same thing can't be said about MLB, honestly). Now, for a Hanshin player to be involved in such things is imho a double shame that deeply saddens me, even more so as a gaijin. As long as I'm concerned, Williams lost his face and I'm glad he's not a Tiger anymore. Sorry to sound harsh, but that's the way I feel about this. /._.\
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Williams was even better in 2007 and was absolutely unplayable. His ERA was 0.96 and once he or Fujikawa took the mound the opposition just gave up. They knew they didn't have a chance. However, Williams elbow and shoulder were not good and he would begin to experience problems in 2008. This was a tough year for Williams who had problems with the third strike in particular and started to give up leads. He had to have breaks to rest and there was the cloud of the Mitchell report hanging over him (more later). He continued to struggle through the season and his inability to hold a lead created serious difficulties for Tigers. It is unlikely that with a fully fit Williams, they would have lost the championship. Williams had off season surgery after the 2008 season but when he returned in 2009 it was clear that the problems weren't fixed and he was once again unable to pitch well. His ERA was 3.58 and he could only manage 31 games. He returned to the US for elbow surgery mid-season which was carried out in August. However, he was clearly written out of Mayumi's future plans. Williams has stated he would like to return in 2011 after rehabilitation in 2010 but the likelihood of this happening is remote in the extreme.
One would like to thank him for his illustrious service with the Tigers except for the Mitchell report. This report into drug and steriod abuse in MLB named Williams as one who had purchased steroids. Kirk Radomski stated that Williams had purchased the steroids Anavar and Dianabol from him and the report included a reproduction of a cheque for $1,820 (pp228) Williams paid to Radomski in 2004 for the steroids. Williams did not co-operate with the report and provided no explanation for this purchase. He did deny using steroids on his fan website and to Minami-san, Tigers president in 2007. Furthermore, Williams has never tested positive for steroids, both in the Olympics and NPB. Even so, all William's achievements in NPB must remain suspect. Other atheletes have taken steriods and been tested clean (Marion Jones). Other atheletes have also lied about their drug use, most recently Andre Agassi and one cannot trust an athelete's denial at all, too many are ready to lie to give the honest ones the credibility they deserve. Until Williams explains what the cheque was for and why he bought the steroids one has to treat all his achievements as tainted. This is not the way Tigers fans want to remember this fine pitcher but this is the way we have to remember him - as a possible cheat.
[Edited by: Christopher on Nov 9, 2009 4:22 PM]