Tigers Fan Needs Some Consolation

How's this:

Hanshin was defeated 13-0 in Game Two of the 2003 Nippon Series against the Hawks, but came back to win three in a row at Koshien.

So you see, no matter how they do in the first couple of games, the game is always reset to 0-0 for the next. And being at home at Koshien should do a lot to help lift the team's spirit.

I expected this to be a pitching duel of a Series, like the Pacific League playoffs were. The amount of offense by the Marines these past two games has been very surprising. I don't expect it to continue.

Shimoyanagi didn't pitch Game Two because he has a worst record at Chiba Marine Stadium than at Koshien, so you can expect him lead the Tiger charge back home.

Regarding Watanabe Shunsuke's shutout of the Tigers in Game Two, Kataoka, who had faced him while Kataoka was playing with Nippon Ham said, "Watanabe Shun[suke] is nothing like he used to be. He has confidence in his pitching." It's this new self confidence in the team that Valentine-kantoku has been working on that you have to worry about.

Will Koshien give the Tigers that same self confidence? That remains to be seen, but should offer hope.

Yeah. Valentine said on the English site about how the biggest thing was teaching the players that they don't have to finish in B class every year.

Whilst Game 1 involved a lot of Marines' luck, there was no luck involved in Game 2. Just a confident team secure in its abilities. Okada seemed to write both games off very quickly and Igawa didn't pitch well at all. Andoh was OK until the melt down in the sixth.

You could see this in the difference of mental states just before Game One. Bobby came away from the managers' meeting smiling and clapping, and the bench was just as rowdy, people high fiving and chest beating; while the Hanshin players were sitting, sulking, not looking confident at all. If Bobby can keep up this kind of energy level amongst his boys, they'll be unstoppable.

- If Bobby can keep up this kind of energy level amongst his boys, they'll be unstoppable.

The Hawks were the same in 2003 - pumped up and cocky as anything - but they still came away from Koshien winless. The Marines were visibly excited over the weekend (and who wouldn't be with those big scores), but the real test is yet to come. The Tigers have been here before, so we'll see whether experience or exuberance carries the day.

Thanks guys, I feel much better today. I was especially inspired by many of the fan interviews and "anshin" interviews on TV.

To Koshien tomorrow! Let's work some Koshien magic!

The Marines are destined to win the Japan Series this year. Bobby Valentine has his team believing that they can beat anyone in the world, including the Chicago White Sox or the Houston Astros. They are all pumped! I just cannot see them losing 4 in the next 5 games. They are 7 and 2 so far in the play-offs and nothing is going to stop this team from winning, especially now when every pitch and at bat means everything. I predict a sweep in this Series. The Marines did really well at Koshien this year despite having 50,000 die-hard Tigers fans cheering there.

Does anyone know if the winner of the Japan Series has a victory parade just like the winner of the World Series here in North America? Chiba better get ready for a huge party!

- I predict a sweep in this Series.

Mmmm. I think you'll be bitterly disappointed. What's the saying - Pride cometh before a fall?

Is that a guarantee?

- Is that a guarantee?

I'm not sure if you're referring to the Hanshin Tigers or the Chiba Lotte Marines? Though it's far from being a guarantee that the Tigers will just pack up and quit right now. Plus the Tigers are back home at Koshien right now. And second, Hanshin has came back from worse margins than this this year to win, so I would wisely say "not to count your chickens before they hatch."

- Is that a guarantee?

There are no guarantees in baseball.

I still think you'll be disappointed (if you're looking for a Marines' sweep), but the Tigers will have to mount a superhuman effort now to win the championship!

Obviously the extended layoff affected them more than I thought.

- The Tigers have been here before, so we'll see whether experience or exuberance carries the day.

Well now game 3 is over and Hanshin are being "schooled" by Lotte so far this Series.

With all due respect, what experience do you think Hanshin has? It seems to me that, despite rallying against the Hawks in 2003, they still only have experience of losing the Series. If anything, you could argue that the Marines have more experience than Hanshin in high pressure knockout baseball, due to them coming through the Seibu and Hawks playoff series this year.

And I don't think you are giving Lotte due credit. They are proving themselves to be a real quality outfit, with great pitching, batting, and temprament. I think it is far from just "exuberence" at play here.

Speaking of a Tigers fan who needs some consolation, Tora Fan Arrested for Vandalism at Chiba Marine Stadium [Kyodo News at InfoSeek Japan - in Japanese].

Maybe a day or two in the slammer will rid him of the disappointment of first two games, no?

I had never been this low. Even during the 2003 Series in Fukuoka, the games were closer. Now it's like I'm watching a bunch of 3rd graders. The error by Imaoka, the balls pitched to Saburo by Igawa as well as Andoh. Dang it, man.

My team pains me. Sleepless nights for me.

Looks like they will need more consoling, 10-1 again in Game 3. Talk about total domination by the Marines. I never saw this coming at all in this Series.

This team finished 10 game ahead of everybody else. What kind of league is the Central League anyway?

The way they are playing, the Tigers do not look as if they to want to win the Japan Series. It really is as if they don't care at all. Their approach is that of a team playing in a league where lost matches are not so important - how else can you explain Okada's pitching changes.

Of course they may win the next four matches, but nothing in their attitude indicates that this will happen.

One rumour in the izakaya last night was that this is all a brilliant "poison pill" plan to discourage Murakami Fund.

OK, I'm done.

Truely, this was not the team I have been rooting for. That is lost somewhere.

Very first game, first inning at Chiba. Supposed to be a suicide bunt. And Okada decided not to do so.

I had been taken aback.

The biggest let down is, double play kings. And of course we can't depend on Kanemoto. He bats like he is back after a long injury.

Anyway, it should be 4-0. For the Marines. Then only there will be some change in the ATTITUDE. At least.

torakichi - now there's an idea! However, I think it's just fans trying to stave off the depression.

To say the least I'm not happy about the loss, but hats off to Lotte. We must give credit where it's due, and they played a tremendous Series.

Hanshin will be back next year to have another crack.

Okada improved as a manager this year, but undid all his hard work in the Nippon Series.

Starting Kataoka as DH, his pitching changes, having runners at first and second and no outs twice without moving them round on a sac bunt. Ha! A joke!

Interesting comments, but hardly borne out by the evidence.

After the first two games Kataoka had more hits than Kanemoto and Imaoka combined (1 to 0). He at least looked like he knew how to handle Watanabe in the second game. Furthermore, judging by the evidence of the last game, it is a good thing that they avoided sacrifice bunts. The sight of Sheets bunting will live with me for a long time. It was the number of double plays (four in the final game alone) that really killed the Tigers, not the lack of sacrifice bunts.

I agree that the Series wasn't Okada's best moment though.

I tend to agree with your criticism of Okada, except where Kataoka is concerned. Although nothing (at all!) to brag about, his peformance was better than most of the Tigers.

While most of us here in Osaka are shocked, disappointed, and somewhat depressed, I have already heard the cry of "we'll be back next year!"

What can you say?

Based on the way Hanshin played, they pretty much earned what they got (although it sucks for this fan).

Maybe Hanshin and KFC will start a new campaign, and place a statue of Col. Sandars in the Dotombori. Later resurect it to "reverse the curse" in front of the news media.

They could place the statue at Koshien. It would be a morale booster for the superstitious, and a solid advertising ploy for KFC!

I definitely think the Tigers lost in part because of Okada's managing. Why didn't he switch around the lineup a bit? They literally ran the same lineup out there every day, whereas Bobby V. did some very unconventional, creative things that paid off for him. When your 3-4-5 is a collective 4-for-31 after three games, isn't it time to shake things up a little? Replacing Hiyama with Shane Spencer is not exactly what I think of as "shaking things up," either.

Why didn't JFK make more of an appearance in this Series? A lot of those big blowouts by Lotte were in the later innings. Put in Williams or Fujikawa for the 6th or 7th inning, not, say, Egusa. Why have such a great bullpen triad if you're not going to use it?

The fourth game was very close - and finally involved all of JFK, which was probably why it was so close. After the way Masa Kobayashi imploded in the Pacific League Playoff Second Stage Game 3, I was actually really worried there in the 9th inning of Game 4. But Imae saved the day, Masa struck out Fujimoto, and the Marines held on to that very narrow 3-2 lead for the win.

I'm really happy for Chiba. They have improved so much, and it's exciting to see young players like Imae and Nishioka shine.

I feel really bad for toraintewig-san having a ticket to Game 5, though, heh. Well, actually, I feel bad for all Tigers fans. Oh well - yeah, there's "always next year"!

Good points. Okada seemed to give up every time the Marines reached five runs. So even when he used Fujikawa in game 3 he did not replace him with Williams. As I said elsewhere it was almost as if they didn't want to win.

What I couldn't believe (apart from Sheets) was Yano trying to bunt again after the first mess he made of it. That got Kobayashi out of a serious fix as he was very shaky.

- Why didn't JFK make more of an appearance in this Series? A lot of those big blowouts by Lotte were in the later innings. Put in Williams or Fujikawa for the 6th or 7th inning, not, say, Egusa.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but remember that Fujikawa was used in Game 3 and promptly gave up four runs. It was the correct decision to keep them out of Game 1 (especially with that weather), but yes, Okada could have brought them into Game 2, with Monday being a day off.

But the main problem was that the Tigers just weren't hitting. Great bullpens are really only effective when there's a lead to protect. So Okada's failure to use JFK was hardly critical to the overall result.

It hurt me like anything else man.

At least I'm happy about the whitewash. So that some serious mesaures will be taken or learnt a hard lession.

When Okada was speaking to the fans 2 years ago, we had forgotten something, this team has a whole new look. We will bring the Nippon Cup to our home.

What he forgot was, his players enjoyed the break too much and missed what real baseball is - either pitching or hitting.

They could have played a weekly 3 games schedule with their own farm team. At least to stay in touch with real life.

The way Kanemoto and Imaoka were swinging the bat was very much evident that they couldn't even see the ball. And, my goodness, I suggest Andy Sheets bat down the order or leadoff. Man he kills me with his double plays. When a runner is on, he gets so nervous. He tries too hard just to not hit a double play ball, and finally ends up doing it. First Sheets, second Akahoshi, that could be a good one, or else eighth Sheets would be a good one.

Third baseman was not quick on Imae's infield singles. Finally, the change of Sheets and Imaoka had serious effects in the Nippon Series.

As we have been pondering earlier days, some critical moments, it is going to hurt the team. And it did. The fact was none of the Lotte pitchers were in control for the first few innings - but none of the Tiger batters could see the balls either.

Overall it's a fan's shame series. But let's clear the air, and move on to next season.

Yeah, and in Okada-kantoku's report to the owner on Friday, he says, "Yeah I know I was worried at the start of the Series about our batting, so we have no excuses."

Dang it, that's not going to do it for the fans! But we Tigers fans are so loyal I doubt we're going to get slammed very much.

I read a very sad story about Yano in tears last night. And I saw Akahoshi about to cry at the end of game 3 in person. These two probably gave their best of the whole team, and it's so sad the rest of the team couldn't support them.

Very disappointed with their lack of a sense of responsibility in the Nippon Series this year. I wonder if that was all they did to prepare, simulations and that 4 day camp in Miyazaki. They keep saying "no excuses, no excuses," but - nattoku dekihen! (That's not going to satisfy me.)

Okada is just following the tradition of the losers not saying anything. However, Hoshino-san, in one of his broadsides, points to the long layoff, inability to execute the basics, a too reactive strategy, and significantly the worries caused by the Murakami Fund. This apparently was quite a distraction from preparations, and whilst he clearly states that this should not be seized on as the main reason, Hoshino states that it was a big and unwelcome issue. He is clearly extremely angry with Murakami over the timing of his actions.

- What he forgot was, his players enjoyed the break too much and missed what real baseball is - either pitching or hitting.

Which is why the CL needs to install a playoff system, to prevent the slugfests we saw this year in the Nippon Series. There is no reason the CL should have no playoffs, the fans deserve them and team/league itself deserves them, too, for a more competitive league and more competitive Nippon Series.

Well, at least it's a welcome change to have Hanshin fans bemoaning the loss of another Nippon Series. Just four years ago we were wondering if we were ever going to get out of the cellar!

Well, superior coaching made the difference. I saw the huge gulf between the Valentine coaching team and our Hanshin guys, but I was hopeful talent would overcome the difference. I was wrong.

BV had a book on every Hanshin player. He called every pitch based on his data and it worked. He must have had a book on the Hashin pitching as well as 30 runs in three games was amazing.

BV brought the Moneyball concept to Japan and wow, did it pay off for his team. He claims to have been coaching this way for 20 years, way before Beane in Oakland used stats as a competitive element. Heck, before Beane was even born, almost.

What a tribute to management, both in terms of motivation and the use of data. Guillon in the USA may not have used stats, I am not sure, but he was also able to make his team believe itself despite a history of chronic losing. And his team also swept its way to a Series championship.

A short series can be quite unpredictable in baseball, but I was surprised that the Tigers gave up 10 runs in three straight games!

I didn't get to see any games because I wasn't in Japan, but it sounds like the Marines were the deserving party all along.

The Central League (and MLB) keep on signing away top Pacific League players via FA (and Posting), but PL wins again! (This time over the second richest club.) I'm a happy camper.