Top Starters in the Pacific League

I beg to differ about Rakuten. I think everyone's accepted Masahiro Tanaka as their #1 now that Iwakuma's gotten hurt again and Ichiba's gone. I'm not sure who's the #2... Satoshi Nagai, or Kanehisa Arime, maybe?

Most of these have also failed miserably. Quick examples Watanabe, Darvish, Wakui, Wada, Davey. It depends on how they pitch on the day, and this is difficult to predict.

- Most of these have also failed miserably. Quick examples Watanabe, Darvish, Wakui, Wada, Davey.

Yes, but the majority of the time they have been the top starters on their respective teams, too. Of course everyone will have a bad game here and there, I don't care what pitcher you are, you won't be perfect every time out.

Exactly, and you have to also take into account some of these pitchers' teams. That is to say, when a team isn't playing well, the starter is really effected. For example, as of late Seibu has struggled, so I'm sure it's tough for Wakui to have a strong game, and a perfect example is Tom Davey of Orix. After Orix lost 16-17 while playing awful baseball, do you think it's easy for him to have strong starts in such a situation? He and Hirano have been very strong on a very poor team, and just look for them to get better on a team that's improving under a very smart manager in Collins. He will not burn his starters out like Nakamura did last year.

As for Wada and Watanabe, they are on strong teams that have a better chance to win, but they will still have a bad day like anybody else. They are human. Darvish has been tremendous.

I beg to differ. How can you say it depends on the day? All these guys are very good starters and are having strong seasons. It's a long season and in a span of 25-30 starts there are going to be a few days where it doesn't go your way. But I strongly disagree with your comment. The stats don't lie. Darvish, Watanabe, Wakui, Wada, and Davey are all guys I would love to have at the top of my rotation. Failed miserably? The only thing that has failed miserably is your comment.

Having seen the Dragons, for example, dismantle Watanabe recently, or in the past Wada suddenly collapse, the comment does have some relevance. Maybe the problem here is an over-literal interpretation of the comment, which is only meant to highlight the odd game.

Stats don't tell the whole story. For example, Seibu just had a terrible run (with Wakui pitching), and Wada, before beating the Tigers at Koshien, hadn't won for a month. Not everything is as clearcut as the stats would seem to suggest.

Not every starter is going to have a great start every time out. It's the guys that limit those bad starts over the span of a long season that are among the best, and that is why these guys are mentioned. When a team is going bad a starter can only do so much. He can't play defense and he can't score runs, so he can only dictate so much. I think Watanabe is doing pretty well at second in the league in ERA. Wada will be fine. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

- They are not included in the discussion since Nomura changes starters everyday.

Like Deanna said, Japanese baseball fans have accepted that Masahiro Tanaka is the Eagles' ace. With Iwakuma hurt and Ichiba gone, that's where the #2 pitcher gets kind of grainy. It may be some combination of either Arime or Nagai. I always thought that it was Arime, but I could be mistaken.

Also if we're going to mention Seibu and Orix, who are both below the Eagles, then Rakuten deserves to be mentioned in this topic, too.

Yes, they deserve to be mentioned, but there is no second guy that stands out, and I'll take all of the other guys listed in this forum over Tankaka this season. Maybe a season or two down the road he will be better, but with his incompetent manager and his inconsistency, I don't like my chances with him. He will not win 10 games and will have an ERA over four. All the other guys listed will win 10.

Considering he's already 4-2 in 12 starts, I'd say he has a pretty good chance of winning more than 10 games, especially given his insane strikeout rates. Are you forgetting that this is an 18-year-old kid who is fourth in the Pacific League in strikeouts right now?

And why anyone would take the aging Nishiguchi over Tanaka is beyond me. Nishiguchi's W-L and ERA are catching up with his peripheral stats.

A bigger point to make would be that Lotte actually has three top two pitchers, since nobody's mentioning youngster Yoshihisa Naruse, who's pretty awesome as well. Lotte's top 3 right now pretty much matches SoftBank's top 3 (Sugiuchi, Wada, Arakaki).

But, either way, if someone's dismissing Rakuten just because they don't have two TOR starters, they'll be sorry when Takeshi Yamasaki hits another home run over them, or Kazuo Fukumori slams the door in the 9th. I'm not claiming they'll go to the playoffs or anything, but I wish people would stop just dismissing them as if it's still 2005.

(We really ought to make it a requirement for anon posters to at least enter some sort of name - I can't tell exactly how many people are behind the "Guest"s in this thread.)

- ... and I'll take all of the other guys listed in this forum over Tankaka this season.

How isn't Tanaka all that great? He's 4-2 with a 3.80 ERA so far this year. Not to mention that he tops in K/9 IP with 9.45, and he's one of the top young phenoms in NPB. He has 2 complete games already, has 77 strikeouts. That's pretty good for consistency, also considering that Tanaka's an 18 year rookie just out of Koshien last summer.

As for Nishiguchi, who would want him as a #2 pitcher these days? He's been downright terrible this year. He has an ERA over 5 (5.05), and has almost as many walks as strikeouts (38 BBs to 41 Ks). There's no way anyone want him over Tanaka.

- I don't like my chances with him. He will not win 10 games and will have an ERA over four.

He's almost halfway to 10 wins, with 4.

- ... but with his incompetent manager and his inconsistency ...

As for Nomura and incompetency and inconsistency, you can't complain with Rakuten's performance this year. They're in 4th place, 2 games over Seibu and 2.5 over Orix (which is a mess, but that's another discussion for another topic). I have to say that Nomura's doing something right there.

I'm sick of all the bashing of Rakuten, it's at the point where it seems like a Rakuten bash-fest on these boards at times. As of right now they're better than both Orix and Seibu, and sit in fourth place. Will they make the playoffs this year? Probably not. But are they improving? You bet. They're doing something right, I wish more people here would give them that credit which they deserve.

- ... since nobody's mentioning youngster Yoshihisa Naruse, who's pretty awesome as well.

Yes indeed, that's a good point that has been missed in this topic so far. A big part of the Marines' success has been the excellent rotation that they have had all year (Watanabe, Kobayashi, Naruse). They're definitely as good as any rotation in NPB, including Softbank (Suguichi, Wada, and Arakaki). That's definitely one of (if not the biggest reason why Chiba is sitting at the top of the PL.

I agree about your pick for the SoftBank Hawks, but I do have one important question (at least to me it's important). Is it too late for Kazumi Saitoh to get back in the line-up and to be on the top of the rank again like last year? I think he's been gone for quite a long time now, and I was wondering if he can still pitch and break some of his own records from last year? I really don't know much about baseball and its rules because I was only introduced to this game in July of last year and I immediately fell in love with the Hawks team. I can't read Japanese characters, and I can't understand most of the difficult words, so it has been a real test for my loyalty to the team.

If I had to rank these top guys, I would do it in this order:

1. Kobayashi and Watanabe. Very impressive so far. Both have dominated. Tough to argue with.
2. Sugiuchi and Wada. Nice lefty combination. Sugiuchi has been outstanding and Wada was before an injury. Look for him to regain his form.
3. Davey and Hirano. On a better team would be dominating. Hirano is among the top 3 best young arms in the league.
4. Darvish and Glynn. Darvish is unreal, Glynn needs to stay healthy and show me more
5. Wakui and Nishiguichi. Wakui is a nice starter but the manager overuses him and he will get tired. Nishiguichi is not really that strong
6. Tanaka and whoever. Not really that good at all.

With Sugiuchi - no problem, he is easily the best mentioned here. Wada - I still have question marks about him, but the numbers are impressive. Watanabe is good this year, but was awful last year. His performance is the difference between the Marines doing well or poorly. Kobayashi is good, but there are lots of pitchers like him in both leagues. Davey is having a good year, but whether he has the stamina to carry it through the year is a big question. Hirano has lots of talent, he should be on a better team though. Darvish continues to amaze, but Glynn has not impressed me at all. Seibu are struggling, and that is all you need to know about their pitching. Tanaka is getting better with each outing. He has stamina and is learning. He will be one to watch for the future.

At this rate right now I'd probably put Kishi alongside Wakui for Seibu as their two currently best pitchers. Nishiguchi, as everyone above had said, has been struggling. I'm not sure if he's battling through injuries or is just getting older and losing that edge.

I think Darvish has been the best pitcher so far, other than that one start, he's been dominant, pitching 7 CG in 11 starts, with a 1.92 ERA and league top 92 Ks.

With how Tanaka Masahiro started out the season, and how he's been pitching lately, I suppose you can already see a big difference. He was getting whacked pretty badly in April, but has been starting to come around since May. Sure he still has lots to work on, with his high walk rate and all that. But there's no reason other than fatigue to say he will be doing bad. And I also agreed with others that the Eagles are a much improved team. Don't forget, they're only in their third year, it does take time to build up a team - especially in baseball. It's not like in the NBA where the Orlando Magic drafted someone called Shaquille Oneal or how Cleveland landed Lebron James and suddenly turned their whole franchise around. Although Nomura's jabbering can be quite annoying sometimes, at least he's doing a good job and pumping his guys up.

SoftBank's pitchers have always been cursed it seems. Whoever dominated in the last season will pick up some kind of injuries and have a bad year. It has happened many times (Kazumi, Sugiuchi).

Watanabe's my favorite pitcher - all I can say is the WBC probably took a lot out of him last season, in which he struggled the whole year. But this year he's back and been brilliant so far. With him, KobaHiro, and Naruse, being as hot as they've been, and their dominating bullpen (with the exception of Fujita, who's been real bad so far), their pitching staff is probably the best right now.

Hawks' pitching staff was supposed to be one of the tops as well, but with their bullpen has been awful all of a sudden, blowing leads every night by a pitcher not named Mahara or Nitkowski. The Marines' pitching staff has been the most impressive to now.