NPB Needs to Stop Sending Players to MLB

I don't think this is correct at all. While the attendance for Orix took a dive after Ichiro went across, I think you'll find that attendance for Pro Yakyu as a whole went up.

And the loss of Matsui in itself didn't affect the popularity of the Giants - they have plenty of other stars to bring in the fans.

Shinjo's departure didn't affect the Tigers one little bit - some would argue that that they couldn't have won the pennant with him. And on his return to Japan, he has helped enhance the profile of his new club, the relocated Nippon Ham.

Sasaki went over, and then returned to the BayStars a bigger star than ever, probably bringing in a few more fans.

My point is that the exodus (hardly a mass exodus despite the warnings of the pessimists) is not affecting the popularity of NPB. On the contrary, the MLB connection has been of immense benefit to NPB in that the Japanese have something to compare themselves with. With the TV coverage of MLB games (or should I say, coverage of Japanese players in the MLB - there is a difference) the fans have more of an awareness of how others play the game, and to see Ichiro break record after record over there, for example, increases the popularity of the sport overall.

To be sure, Pro Yakyu has its problems. But sending players over to the majors is not one of them. The exposure that both the players and fans (and hopefully the administrators) are receiving to MLB may in fact help the sport.

The ability of NPB players to go to MLB is a double edged sword - it has positives and negatives for NPB. So long as NPB can keep Japanese youngsters after they leave school for at least 6 or 7 years, NPB should be fine on the talent level.

Jim Albright

I thought the Orix BlueWave received $13 million for the negotiating rights for Ichiro. I don't know the case of the other players.

I believe Yakult received $9-10 million for the negiotiating rights to Ishii. Every player who is "posted" by his team will receive compensation.

As a general point, I think we're seeing a positive effect on Pro Yakyu, with players such as Shinjo and Sasaki raising their profiles in America, then returning to Japan. I also think the positive effect could be heightened with more of an exchange, rather than this kind of one-sided thing we're seeing now.

Also, does anyone here really believe that Hideki has played his last game in Japan? I fully expect to see him in a Kyojin uniform again, and I suspect that Ishii will be back, too.

- I love baseball, and all from around the world, but Pro Yakyu needs to put a stop to this trend [of sending players to MLB] now. They keep sending all these good players over to the MLB and they get nothing in return.

There's not that many players going to the majors, so I don't know where you are coming up with this. Maybe one major player comes each year, Kaz Sasaki, Ichiro Suzuki, Hideki Matsui, Kaz Matsui.

- If Hiedeki, Kaz, Ichirio, Nomo, etc., never came overseas, maybe Pro Yakyu wouldn't be in the mess it's in right now, fighting for fan support. It's like if the Yankees sent Jason Giambi or Rivera and Boston sent Pedro Martinez to NPB, and more MLB stars were heading to NPB Wouldn't the fans of MLB stop caring since their best stars are going away?

The NPB is in the mess it's now because of the owners and the way the corporations run the teams. The fans are still watching the games in Japan. If, MLB stars went to Japan I could care less, I wouldn't stop caring less about MLB. Also, I don't think MLB fans are going to care less about MLB if major players went to play in Japan.

Is it right to say that NPB is "sending" players to MLB? I thought each of these players, for whatever personal reasons, decided to leave NPB in favor of MLB. NPB isn't getting anything in return because there isn't some sort of "exchange" going on. Those players decided to go, and they found a route to do it.

Although I don't think there would have been any way for NPB to keep Hideki Matsui around, certainly some of the earlier players who left would have stayed in NPB if the environment had been more favorable to players. That seems to be where NPB really needs to work, to create an environment where top players wouldn't feel that there's anything to gain by going through the trouble to get to MLB.

For me personally, it really was these players who came to MLB which ignited my new and current interest in NPB. Maybe there will be more people like me in the future.

- Stevie

Also, NBP has enjoyed the benefits of having players come from MLB/the NA (as well as other baseball leagues). I'd argue that player movement has been a boon to most concerned.

I know this is not a good example, but here goes. I have two colleagues who are big baseball fans. Both of them are really interested in NBP and one of them owns six of the 12 teams' baseball caps. The second guy was asking me the other day how he could get an Orix BlueWave jersey. He has also watched five NBP games on TV in Canada this past year (don't ask me which channel, but I will find out if you want). It seems to me that the true baseball fan wants to learn more about the NPB because they understand the Japanese talent pool and quality of the league. So it seems that NBP players moving to MLB has created some interest in NPB and has increased some merchandising revenue.

Obviously it isn't a big enough sample size to say much, but I was pleasantly surprised by the heightened interest in NPB.

When Hideo Nomo first came to the majors it created an interest in the NPB. When Ichiro Suzuki came to the majors it created a massive amount of interest in the NPB. Also, with every major Japanese player (K. Ishii, H. Matsui, K. Matsui, S. Takatsu, etc.) that comes to the majors it brings more interest into the NPB from foreign fans.

Yes, Some people do have the time to learn about other leagues in the world (including myself), but to the casual fan that is constantly being fed that NPB is like a AAA league and seeing Japanese players come over, it shows that MLB is the superior product and any other league doesn't compare.

I'll admit that the scouting in countries like the Dominican Republic, Cuba, Japan, etc. do increase interest in those countries, but nothing is being payed back by MLB except that the particular country has baseball players. Can anyone name any Cuban baseball teams? What about D. Republic? We can name players that comes from there, but don't know anything about the organizations.

[Editor's note: There are a number of people here from Cuba, the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, and other South American countries (and around the world for that matter). I believe the questions above are targeted toward the "casual fan" from North America.]

Hi guys.

Since the first Dominican ballplayer played in MLB (Ozzie Virgil, 1956), Americans fans took interest in Dominican baseball. The Dominican Republic not only has nearly 100 players in MLB rosters now days (25 newcomer players in 2004 season are from Dominican), they have one great winter league during the October-January span every year. Miguel Tejada, David Ortiz, Vladimir Guerrero, Alfonso Soriano, Sammy Sosa, Alex Rodr

Belling the bat, uh, cat.

Also, to quote Nixon, "We could do it, but it would be wrong."

I really don't think players going to MLB is hurting Japanese baseball. I certainly disagree that NPB gets nothing in return.

NPB has gotten Tuffy Rhodes, George Arias, Benny, et al. All very good players in Japan. NPB could have more foreign players, but management doesn't want them. Management also gets paid big bucks for allowing NPB vets have their freedom to test international markets.

Nobody sends anyone anywhere. It's up to the players to decide where they can/want to play, as allowed by free agency.

The Dominican Republic has gotten the ability of their domestic teams to use MLB players, since their season is in the winter in the northern hemisphere. Many of the Caribbean Series players play in MLB, or in the minor leagues.

I think Japanese players in MLB has piqued interest in NPB. I'm assuming here, but I bet Bob Whiting didn't put out another book on Japanese baseball if his publisher didn't notice sales of "You Gotta Have Wa!" picking up after Ichiro came to MLB.

The problem is - and the true and unassailable problem of NPB is - that the owners have dropped the ball. Like Michael-san said to me once, the owners have zero idea that my demographic (Americans interested in NPB) exist. We don't get TV of games here. This is inexcusable. There are more than enough baseball fanatics here to make it work - get a normal play-by-play guy and a former player in Japan like a Randy Bass (who many American fans do know), or even a current American in Japan and have the play-by-play guy ask questions as the game goes along. I bet ESPN or FOX SPORTS would be interested in showing it. He[ck], we even have Fox Sports World, a whole channel devoted to world sports like soccer, rugby, cricket, etc. There is absolutely zero question they'd be interested in showing it.

There's a whole litany of other complaints - merchandising, the Internet in English, etc. - but really it all comes down to TV. Australian Football became a cult sport in the U.S. due to ESPN showing it in the early 1980s when they needed programming, why not NPB?

This might've be the stupidest topic on this forum - ever.

The NPB doesn't "send" players to the MLB, all the players are either free agents of playing long enough in the NPB or got posted where their team have gotten money in return. By saying not to send the top players to MLB is like saying don't send any good soccer player over to Europe.

- I think Japanese players in MLB has piqued interest in NPB.

It definely has for the most part. I became interested in the NPB in the late '90s (1998, '99) after Nomo, Yoshii, and Hasegawa came to the majors.

- The problem is - and the true and unassailable problem of NPB is - that the owners have dropped the ball.

Exactly, the NPB is blind to the fact that there are fans of the NPB outside Japan. The fact that many Americans don't see live games of the NPB leads to the fact that many of us don't know much of it outside of what this great web site, and along with Gary Garland's Japan Baseball Daily web site.

- Australian Football became a cult sport in the U.S. due to ESPN showing it in the early 1980s when they needed programming, why not NPB?

ESPN just shows no interest in showing NPB games which to me is sad, because I, for one, would be interested in watching the NPB.

While the subject line isn't exactly accurate, it has at least sparked some interesting conversation. And I think it all comes down to what Brooks-san and others (including myself in the past) have said: The problem isn't NPB players going to North America, it's the lack of NPB being marketed to North America.

- ESPN just shows no interest in showing NPB games [...]

I don't think that this is entirely true. I've heard (but don't recall the source) that ESPN's reluctance to show NPB is their contract with MLB. I don't think that the contract specifically forbids it, but ESPN doesn't want to stir a hornet's nest by making it an issue. (Again, I don't remember the source, so this may be way off. But it seemed like a plausable reason.)

With all the talk about marketing going on in this thread (although is should probably be in this thread), I've thought of a reason why it would be in ESPN's interest to pursue NPB along-side of MLB: Competition in the marketplace is good for consumers.

MLB has their own government approved monopoly in North America. NPB has the same in Japan. MLB has broken into the TV market in Japan, giving baseball fans more diversity. ESPN would be an excellent channel to promote NPB in North America - to the benefit of consumers.

I guess that I took the above reason for ESPN to shy away from NPB as likely because there are parallels in the computer industry. Microsoft has their government approved monopoly (despite being convicted twice of abusing it without even as much as a slap on the wrist). And the hardware makers won't ship Linux, FreeBSD, the now dead BeOS (due to this policy), etc. on consumer level machines for fear of reprisals by Microsoft (in cutting discounts). Does ESPN get discounts on the airing of MLB games that might go away if they start broadcasting an alternative?

I sure do wish some of the folk at ESPN who read this would come forward with some information on how things work there so that we can get an effective campaign going. I know you're reading ESPN. Pick a handle and teach us how things work there.

Guys this has been interesting, here is my 2 cents.

1. ESPN does not NPB's have international rights.
   TV companies have tried to purchase domestic and international rights together to better do their business. Fox has US NFL rights, but also broadcasting rights in other countries. ESPN has the rights for the Champions League and broadcasts all over the world. NPB has probably never thought of offering those rights as a whole, maybe just market by market.


2. TV Japan owns the U.S. rights to NPB broadcasting.
   TV Japan is not cheap per month, at $30 give or take, but if you love Japanese baseball once or twice a week, this is your option.


3. U.S. citizens who have returned from Japan are not a large percentage of the population.
   I am thinking that those of us who have studied, done JET, or worked for a business is just not a large number. Even if it was 1 million people (probably is, but I can't give exact numbers), how many of us would watch Japanese baseball on television? Be realistic here. I like Japanese baseball, but I may only watch the Japan Series or a game or two here and there when I am living in States (currently yes, and I did attend the 1993 Japan Series). The guys who would watch this stuff night in and out would be scouts, and if they are scouts, they are watching mulitple games anyways because it is their job.


4. ESPN was successful with cult sports.
   Yes, ESPN has been successful, but it has modified its strategy since then. I remember watching Aussie Rules in the past and I still like it, but when the rights got too expensive, ESPN said, "Let's find something else." Currently, Fox owns the Aussie Rules rights for the whole world and shows the game on its overseas channels like Fox Sports World in the U.S. and BskyB in the UK.


5. NPB considers itself a minor league compared to the major leagues in broadcasting rights.
   I have DirecTV in the U.S. and their sports package. I can watch the following sports league on the Fox Sports World channel:
   
   • German Bundesliga Soccer
   • French Division 1 Soccer
   • English Premier League Soccer
   • UEFA Cup Soccer
   • Brazilian Serie A Soccer
   • Argentine Soccer
   • Asian Football (Soccer) Confederation (highlight show)
   • J-League (highlight show)
   
   Some of these league are important sports leagues, but the AFC and J-League have 30 minute shows highlighting their tournaments. How would NPB do a 30-min show on a week of baseball games? Is it like this week in baseball, which most of us can remember, or does it try to showcase the best games of the week, or the contending teams? In an hour show, you can do a little more for a week's worth of games, but for soccer, you can show highlights for all of the games in a 30-minute program. This shows that it is not as understanding as a major league sport.
   
   In addition, on Fox Sports World and its other regional entities, most of the other programming on this channel is infommercials. If a TV company is broadcasting infommercials, we can say, it is making money for its programming, I mean broadcasting of a commercial. If the NPB game market is huge in the U.S., people would put it on the air. But then, what would the advertising companies be? All the same ones that we see on FujiTV's Super Time news program that is available in some parts of the country? Would they be in English or Japanese? I'm not trying to be judgemental about the advertising because I can understand the ads, but not everybody does of course.


6. American-centric thinking of sports league.
   Most Americans (huge generization here, but it is true) believe that the best leagues are in the U.S. Similarly the best soccer leagues are in Spain, England, and Italy. I just feel that people here think that Japanese baseball is second rate and that the players coming here are very talented and would get to the States at some point. Similar to the soccer players in Brazil who get transferred from their teams in Brazil for a truckload of money to Europe. Personally, I watch the J-League highlights show, read the Japanese sports pages in English and Japanese daily, but it doesn't mean that I'm a normal person! Some people who are die-hard baseball fans would watch, but I just don't see it as a huge number.

JB

This is really about money. TV Japan has the US rights and gets $30/month probably from Japanese ex-pats in the US and maybe a small number of interested Americans willing to pay the price.

NPB would be good programming for ESPN2 on a regular basis and ESPN for a weekend game or playoffs. However, that would cannabalize the TV Japan viewer base and destroy TV Japan's revenue stream.

Soccer is of interest to some in the US because the best players are generally overseas and the local product is not in as great demand. The opposite is the case with MLB. Hang the ethno-centric arguement on a better example. In this case, it's a question of economics.

- NPB would be good programming for ESPN2 on a regular basis and ESPN for a weekend game or playoffs. However, that would cannabalize the TV Japan viewer base and destroy TV Japan's revenue stream.

Exactly, it would be better than some of the things ESPN shows on ESPN 2 and ESPN, also be better than the "World Series of Poker" and other lame television shows on ESPN and ESPN 2. What bothers me is that ESPN calls themself the "worldwide leader in sports." If they are they need to broaden their horizion to include more.

However, what it all comes down to is that we need to get a interesting proposal to ESPN on how and why NPB is interesting. As for TV Japan, the baseball games aren't their key show or event, most Japanese-Americans would still order and suscribe to the TV Japan for the Japanese programming.

I was under the impression that baseball games are only a small portion of TV Japan's schedule. I don't think many people subscribe to TV Japan to watch baseball, and consequently, I don't think they'd lose many subscribers if they suddenly got rid of baseball.

Airing games on a cable station to a wider audience might actually inspire some interest in Japanese ball, and lure a few subscripters over to TV Japan. (Then again, I've seen TV Japan, and it is entirely in Japanese, and thus not intended for the casual fan).

TV Japan is owned by the NHK Group (one of Japan's biggest media companies) and the Itochu Group. It's very unlikely that if ESPN showed baseball, or if TV Japan stopped showing baseball, that TV Japan would lose money due to these incidents.

[TV Japan Corporate Info]

Simple reply to this Jeremy.

Fox Sports World will show anything they can be reasonably sure their market will be interested in. The whole premise is world sport, and NPB is "world sport."

They show a ton of rugby, whose ratings NPB can surely approach. They show live games of Chilean soccer at times, surely there's more potential in NPB than Chilean soccer?

Show a few games over the weekend as a test-trial. That should not be too hard.

- They show live games of Chilean soccer at times, surely there's more potential in NPB than Chilean soccer?

We need for the NPB, once again like I said, to realize that there are NPB fans outside of Japan, and that it would be profitable to televise these games to the United States, for example. And someone needs to explain to ESPN that NPB games would be profitable and of interest of people outside of Japan.

Who cares what ESPN thinks? If they don't want it, they won't show it.

My point is there are other stations who's sole reason for existing is to show world sports, which is what NPB is. Fox is just as important a broadcast network as ESPN anyway, since they own the rights to the World Series.

- Fox is just as important a broadcast network as ESPN anyway, since they own the rights to the World Series.

The point is, FOX most likely won't show NPB, because of their exclusive agreement with MLB, like the World Series and the All-Star Game. They would have a conflict of what to show. Anyway, ESPN has two networks, ESPN and ESPN 2. Neither of these show the World Series, they show the Divisional Series. This would be a prefect timeslot to place the NPB in the United States.

This is a realistic situation. Believe me, I want to see the NPB in the United States, too, but I just don't see it as a reachable goal on FOX.

- Fox is just as important a broadcast network as ESPN anyway, since they own the rights to the World Series.

I'm not arguing with you on this fact. For the most part, I watch FOX more than any of the other major networks, and consider them more of a major network than the rest of them, (CBS, ABC, NBC, ESPN, etc.).

There will always be a monetary issue in regards to NPB players moving to the majors. But as far as personal development goes, the majors are clearly the pinnacle of baseball and a dream many young Japanese ball players would have. I believe prohibiting players like Ichiro and Matsui from leaving Japan would be selfish. I agree with John Brooks-san, the problem comes from the way the teams are run.

Stop sending players to the US? This is about as crazy an idea as there is!

At the present time the ownership group in Japan is strangling and surpressing the Japanese baseball talent. Obviously there are many talented players in Japan, but because of the way the teams draft players (and there are thousands that go unnoticed), the talent level is shrinking. The expansion of new teams will create a more competitive atmosphere and draft system, and fewer players will fall through the cracks. There can be a much larger minor league system if the ownership didn't have such control of the high schools and colleges. They make millions and I don't mean yen, each year, which is why they don't want to expand.

Expansion will create more jobs for players and create better talent. Ichiro, Matsui, etc. would have never been recognized internationally if they didn't go to the States. They went to the States because they were bored, and the Japanese ownership wants to keep things just they way it is. Baseball will be more interesting when it is more competitive in Japan.

Hi,

I watch the Giants games in Hawaii. Two points:

1. NPB can not compete with MLB.
   The NPB does not have the overall talent of MLB. MLB gets top players from Japan, Cuba, Dominican Republic, Canada, etc. The NPB gets the players that can't cut in the bigs and turns them into stars (ie, Tuffy, Alex)


2. It's still baseball so people will watch.
   Aside from a few negatives:
   1. Nobody steals or agressively runs the bases.
   2. No one makes a diving catches
   3. Good pitchers average a 90mph fastball

   However, it's still baseball and fun to watch. Not understanding the Japanese announcers is a plus.

I am not convinced of the supposed superiority of the MLB. Having watched both, I much prefer the NPB. The fielding overall is of a much higher standard and is much faster in the NPB matches. It is true that the Japanese players do not hit as many home runs, but they score in other ways which are much more exciting to watch.

Watching the Giants (a team overloaded with power hitters) does not give you a balanced view of the whole of NPB. Stealing bases is very common, as are diving catches and 158 kph fastballs. Furthermore, for me, NPB is drugs free and MLB is not.