Yomiuri Giants/NY Yankees Marketing Deal

I don't know the details of it, but looking from the outside and judging from your Yankees Stadium experience, it sure looks like the only reason for this "marketing" deal was Steinbrenner trying to be nice (think about that one for a while) to the Giants in acquiring Matsui. Unbeknownst to them, it is their first step towards becoming a defacto Minor League affiliate of the New York Georgettes.

It was a type of deal similar to the Mariners/BlueWave "cooperation" deal where there was a modest exchange of coaches. This so called "cooperation" was thrown in as a sweetener to keep the Japanese side happy. In reality you always see these "marketing/cooperation" deals die a slow dead after the real deal has come through. The real deal, of course, being the acquisition of the player (Ichiro). After they got what they wanted they couldn't care less about the sweetener. Same goes for this "marketing" deal with the Yankees. It is an empty entity. Means nothing. A red herring if you will.

Another interesting aspect of the Yomiuri/George dealings with regard to Matsui is how they avoided dealing with the much hated agent Don Nomura. They just hired away his staff. Jean Afterman was a employee of KDN Sports (Nomura's company) before she became a Yankee VP. Her personal slogan must be: If you can't beat 'm, join 'm.

- I don't know the details of it, but looking from the outside and judging from your Yankees Stadium experience, it sure looks like the only reason for this "marketing" deal was Steinbrenner trying to be nice (think about that one for a while) to the Giants in acquiring Matsui. Unbeknownst to them, it is their first step towards becoming a defacto Minor League affiliate of the New York Georgettes.

I don't really see that. Matsui signed with New York as a free agent. He could have gone to any team that made an offer, but he seemed set on the Yankees long before he even became a free agent. I don't think the Kyojin/Yankees deal had anything to do with it. If you want to argue that the deal had something to do with the Giants getting Chris Latham from the Yankees, you might have something there.

- It was a type of deal similar to the Mariners/BlueWave "cooperation" deal where there was a modest exchange of coaches. This so called "cooperation" was thrown in as a sweetener to keep the Japanese side happy. In reality you always see these "marketing/cooperation" deals die a slow dead after the real deal has come through. The real deal, of course, being the acquisition of the player (Ichiro). After they got what they wanted they couldn't care less about the sweetener. Same goes for this "marketing" deal with the Yankees. It is an empty entity. Means nothing. A red herring if you will.

The Mariners got Ichiro because they outbid all the other teams, not because of any partnership. It cost the M's dearly, $14 million. The only thing that may have been a factor was that Ichiro spent part of the 1999 spring training camp with the Mariners, along with a couple other Orix players (Hoshino was one, I don't remember the other). Having seen Ichiro in person, they might have been inclined to make a higher bid.

- But out of curiosity, what is going on with the Giants/Yankees big historic deal?

From what I understand it's just a marketing and scouting agreement the Yankees and Yomiuri have. [Link - St. Petersburg Times, bottom of page]

- I don't know the details of it, but looking from the outside and judging from your Yankees Stadium experience, it sure looks like the only reason for this "marketing" deal was Steinbrenner trying to be nice (think about that one for a while) to the Giants in acquiring Matsui.

Read the top statement, this is all the agreement is. It has nothing with the signing of Hideki Matsui.

You are telling me it has nothing to do with the Matsui deal because the St. Petersburg Times online edition says so in a three line announcement? C'mon.

Look at the facts. The Giants lost their best hitter and got nothing in return. I don't know about you, but most club owners don't get overly excited when they lose their top gun and get nothing in return. I am sure even Daiei's Nakauchi didn't particularly enjoy letting Kokubo slip away for free.

Had the Yankees done nothing in return they would have had a harder time getting anything done from the Giants next time around (e.g. when they make a pitch for Uehara) because of lingering resentment. To avoid that the Yankees gave them their scouting/marketing deal to smooth things over. A sweetener, like I said, to soften the blow of losing a top hitter.

In the case of Ichiro, it was no accident the Mariners made the highest offer. They had been eyeing Ichiro for a long time. These deals were both prepared long before they actually happened. Don't be fooled by what you get to see in the media.

Then there's the matter of pride. The Giants would not want its best hitter going to anyone other than the Yankees. There may not have been a financial incentive at all; just the satisfaction of knowing that their guy's playing for the best.

- You are telling me it has nothing to do with the Matsui deal because the St. Petersburg Times online edition says so in a three line announcement? C'mon.

The St.Petersburg Times doesn't designate my opinion, but the marketing deal has nothing to do with the Matsui signing. Hideki Matsui was a free agent, who was free to negotiate with any team. Yomiuri had no authority to choose where Matsui would play after leaving the Giants.

- Had the Yankees done nothing in return they would have had a harder time getting anything done from the Giants next time around (e.g. when they make a pitch for Uehara) because of lingering resentment. To avoid that the Yankees gave them their scouting/marketing deal to smooth things over. A sweetener, like I said, to soften the blow of losing a top hitter.

Once again, the Giants had no choice where Matsui would play. Again, the Giants will have no choice where Uehara would go if he were to become a 9-year free agent and go to the majors. The signing of Matsui has no revelance to the Yankees/Giants' marketing deal.

- Had the Yankees done nothing in return they would have had a harder time getting anything done from the Giants next time around (e.g. when they make a pitch for Uehara) because of lingering resentment. To avoid that the Yankees gave them their scouting/marketing deal to smooth things over. A sweetener, like I said, to soften the blow of losing a top hitter.

I tend to agree with you that the marketing/scouting deal was a good will gesture by the Yankees, but I don't think it really lessened the blow of losing Matsui. Look at the results on the field. Is anyone at Yomiuri thinking, "well, we've finished 4th and 3rd since Matsui left, but we got that marketing deal!" I highly doubt it. And I really don't think that this will help the Yankees get Uehara.

- In the case of Ichiro, it was no accident the Mariners made the highest offer. They had been eyeing Ichiro for a long time. These deals were both prepared long before they actually happened. Don't be fooled by what you get to see in the media.

Okay, so your point is that the Mariners knew what they were doing? I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Despite their relationship with Orix, the Mariner's still had to make the highest offer. Keep in mind that Shigetoshi Hasegawa was a BlueWave pitcher, but his contract was sold to the Angels, not Mariners.

The Mariners made the highest offer because they put themselves in pole position by developing good relations with Orix and the player over a period of several years. On top of that they couldn't really afford to not sign Ichiro after putting so much effort into signing him. That explains the dollar mark. Hasegawa was a side show. Ichiro was the main dish here.

Of course, in reality the marketing deal didn't soften the blow for the Giants. That is exactly the point I am trying to make. But at the time it was an attempt by the Yanks at softening the blow for them.

- Hasegawa was a side show.

Hasegawa had nothing to do with Ichiro Suzuki's signing, he was signed by the Angels in the mid 1990's. Seattle just signed him as a free agent in 2002.

- But at the time it was an attempt by the Yanks at softening the blow for them.

Come on, the Yankees don't care about softening blows, all they care about is skyrocketing the payroll to about $200 million. They want a chance to get into Japan, with the Yomiuri Giants, why not go with Japan's biggest team? They didn't sign a deal out of goodwill to anybody because of them signing Matsui (who could of signed with any team).

- Hasegawa was a side show.

I originally included Hasegawa in my posting to make the point that the M's/Wave deal didn't have anything to do with player movement. Orix sold Hasegawa's contract to the Angels, despite having a partmership with the Mariners.

If you still believe Matsui could have been signed with any team in the U.S. you are missing the point completely. He consulted with everybody around him before setting his sights on the Yankees and telling the Giants' front office about his choice. Maybe that was not the picture painted in the media, but you can be sure that is the way it went. This guy does things the Japanese way. Consensus decision making.

You contradict yourself in your last two sentences.

Stating the Yankees want a chance to get into Japan but not signing a (marketing) deal out of goodwill.

When the Yankees enter a new market with high entry barriers like NPB it makes sense to try to show some kind of goodwill gesture to a party they believe might be helpfull to them down the road. If they bully their way through NPB like they are used to in the States, they could pull off one deal, but not many meaningful ones after that. So there is a connection between the Yankees wanting access to NPB and them showing a goodwill gesture. Why deny the obvious?

The point I am trying to make in regard to Hasegawa is that Hasegawa wasn't the M's first priority. They wanted to obtain Ichiro above all. That is why it was OK to let the second choice sigh with the Angels as long as they could pull down their first choice Ichiro.

- If you still believe Matsui could have been signed with any team in the U.S. you are missing the point completely.

Yes, I still believe this, because Matsui was free to sign with any team, just not the Yankees. He happened to sign with New York, because they were the team he was most interested in.

- Stating the Yankees want a chance to get into Japan but not signing a (marketing) deal out of goodwill.

You have to be kidding to think the Yankees sign this deal out of goodwill. The Yankees don't care about goodwill, they want to be able to scout players in Japan and market to Japan.

- So there is a connection between the Yankees wanting access to NPB and them showing a goodwill gesture. Why deny the obvious?

There is a connection, but not because the Yankees signed Matsui who still could have signed with any team. Regardless if he didn't want to play for anyone else, it doesn't matter. This isn't why the marketing deal happened.

How exactly did a marketing deal between the Giants and the Yankees affect a player (Matsui), who, at the time, did not have a contract with either team? Matsui was a free agent. That's pretty much that.

Follow this link [TheInsiders.com]. The Giants would not sign a player-personnel deal with any Major League team because they don't want to become a minor league for the the majors. Obviously.

As for Hasegawa, he joined the Anaheim Angels four seasons before Ichiro was "posted" to the M's. The fact that Orix sold him to the Angels simply illustrates the fact the the Seattle/Orix partnership was also not a player-based deal.

Of course the Yanks couldn't care less about goodwill. That is the point I was trying to make. In vain, I now realize. The Yanks probably think goodwill is some kind of Japanese car tire manufacturer.

But all right, clear, you don't buy what I am saying. So now please explain why the marketing deal did happen and what the connection is. Acccording to the original posting there is not much visibly going on in New York in this regard.

You tell me how the Giants are profiting from this deal. What is in it for them? Are they gonna sell Giants T-shirts by the truckload in the Yankee Stadium concession stands? Are they gonna sell their TV rights to a NY station so the two Giants fans living in the NY area can watch their favorite team? Is Yomiuri going to sell the wildly popular Daily Yomiuri in NY? Sorry, but I just don't see it. You tell me.

You seem to have a good grip on the inner workings of the Yankee front office. If I were George I'd hire you right away.

- But all right, clear, you don't buy what I am saying. So now please explain why the marketing deal did happen and what the connection is. Acccording to the original posting there is not much visibly going on in New York in this regard.

You tell me how the Giants are profiting from this deal. What is in it for them? Are they gonna sell Giants T-shirts by the truckload in the Yankee Stadium concession stands? Are they gonna sell their TV rights to a NY station so the two Giants fans living in the NY area can watch their favorite team? Is Yomiuri going to sell the wildly popular Daily Yomiuri in NY? Sorry, but I just don't see it. You tell me.

Read the linked article I posted above, which explains that it's not really a marketing deal, but a baseball deal. It's hard to say what's in it for either side, because in the nearly two years since it was signed, not much that would be obvious to the average fan has happened.

Why did these teams partner up? I think there's a matter of pride from the Giants' side. I don't think they'd do a deal with, say, the Toronto Blue Jays (no disrespect to the Jays, though, from me anyway).

Japanese teams have traditionally maintained working relationships with MLB teams. The one that comes instantly to mind, for me, is Kintetsu's recent relationship with the Dodgers. The two teams have collaborated in a number of obvious ways, including Nakamura participating in the Dodger's spring training, Tommy Lasorda visiting Japan, and Kintetsu signing pitcher Kevin Beirne out of the Dodgers' system.

I'm sure some other NPB/MLB team partnerships have been discussed in other threads on this site. That might give you some idea of why the teams do it.

PLNara, I agree with you.

For what it's worth, the only NPB merchandise I've ever seen (in person) is Giants' stuff.

Yep, it would be nice to see the NPB - MLB tie-ups somewhere. I am sure, too, they are to be found on the site, but I can't locate them.

I was under the impression that Kintetsu had something going on with Boston. Or was it Daiei?

It would be nice to see a comprehensive list. Somebody know where to find one?

Off the top of my head:

Yokohama - Tampa Bay
Kintetsu - Los Angeles
Kyojin - Yankees

This topic has been covered in threads on this site in the past. I would suggest that you use the handy search function and see what you can find. The info is there.

I think Yakult has an agreement with the Indians. I wonder what will become of Kintestu's relationship with the Dodgers, as the Orix-Kintestu team merged, and Orix has a relationship with Seattle.