HS pitcher throws 14 inning no-no
Discussion in the NPB News forum
Comments
Re: HS pitcher throws 14 inning no-no
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Jul 13, 2005 8:46 AM
| YBS Fan
]
- Pretty impressive, but the kid's manager should be fired for over-working such a young arm.
For a review of the arguements that are going to follow this, please see messages starting here [Yahoo Groups] from the 1998 Koshien tournament.
As some of you may remember, there was a pitching phenom on the mound for Yokohama against PL Gakuen, a baseball player factory of a school, in the quarter finals. This pitcher threw a 17 inning complete game, 250 pitches, for the victory, then came back the next day to throw an inning for the win when all seemed lost (they turned it around from losing 0-8 after eight to win 9-8).
Anyway, following the threads above, you will find that nobody thought that this young pitcher would last two years in NPB. But he has, and is still one of the best pitchers in either league.
This young pitcher's name? Daisuke Matsuzaka (Seibu Lions).
Now, do I condone this behavior? Of course not. I'm just pointing out that some things don't always work out the way one expects.
For a review of the arguements that are going to follow this, please see messages starting here [Yahoo Groups] from the 1998 Koshien tournament.
As some of you may remember, there was a pitching phenom on the mound for Yokohama against PL Gakuen, a baseball player factory of a school, in the quarter finals. This pitcher threw a 17 inning complete game, 250 pitches, for the victory, then came back the next day to throw an inning for the win when all seemed lost (they turned it around from losing 0-8 after eight to win 9-8).
Anyway, following the threads above, you will find that nobody thought that this young pitcher would last two years in NPB. But he has, and is still one of the best pitchers in either league.
This young pitcher's name? Daisuke Matsuzaka (Seibu Lions).
Now, do I condone this behavior? Of course not. I'm just pointing out that some things don't always work out the way one expects.
Re: HS pitcher throws 14 inning no-no
[ Author: Something Lions | Posted: Jul 13, 2005 10:03 AM
| SL Fan
]
The odd pitcher seems to thrive under the heavy Japanese workload, but I'm sure it kills a lot of potentially good or even great pitchers.
I don't see any NPB pitchers succeeding into his 40s like Nolan Ryan, the Rocket, or the Big Unit. Matsuzaka's demise may have been predicted too early on the Yahoo Group discussion, but I wonder how long his career will be. But then again, he is an exceptional pitcher, and probably the exception to many rules.
I don't see any NPB pitchers succeeding into his 40s like Nolan Ryan, the Rocket, or the Big Unit. Matsuzaka's demise may have been predicted too early on the Yahoo Group discussion, but I wonder how long his career will be. But then again, he is an exceptional pitcher, and probably the exception to many rules.
Re: HS pitcher throws 14 inning no-no
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Jul 13, 2005 12:51 PM
| HAN Fan
]
> I don't see any NPB pitchers succeeding into his 40s
> like Nolan Ryan, the Rocket, or the Big Unit.
The Giants pitcher Kudo - 42 years old and currently with a 8-4 victory count and Yamamoto for the Dragons (nearly 40).
Re: HS pitcher throws 14 inning no-no
[ Author: Something Lions | Posted: Jul 13, 2005 1:35 PM
| SL Fan
]
Hmm.. I thought Kudo was just getting lucky with his wins, but his stats aren't bad. They're not dominating, but solid.
Re: HS pitcher throws 14 inning no-no
[ Author: holygoat | Posted: Jul 13, 2005 1:13 PM
| HT Fan
]
Now, do I condone this behavior? Of course not. I'm just pointing out that some things don't always work out the way one expects.
Understood, but I think that qualifies as an exception to the rule. Whenever the topic of pitch counts for young pitchers comes up on the Detroit Tigers forum I post at, some one inevitablly posts something along the lines of, "Today's pitchers are a bunch of babies! Why, Micky Lolich used to pitch 300 innigs a year, no problem..." Mickey was an excpetion.
I just think it's best to err on the side of caution with young pitchers, and especially HS kids. If he's going to be a horse despite pitching a ton of innings as a kid, he'll be a horse if you protect him, too.
Understood, but I think that qualifies as an exception to the rule. Whenever the topic of pitch counts for young pitchers comes up on the Detroit Tigers forum I post at, some one inevitablly posts something along the lines of, "Today's pitchers are a bunch of babies! Why, Micky Lolich used to pitch 300 innigs a year, no problem..." Mickey was an excpetion.
I just think it's best to err on the side of caution with young pitchers, and especially HS kids. If he's going to be a horse despite pitching a ton of innings as a kid, he'll be a horse if you protect him, too.
Re: HS pitcher throws 14 inning no-no
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Jul 13, 2005 2:42 PM
]
"Why, Micky Lolich used to pitch 300 innigs a year, no problem"
Denny McClain of the Tigers also threw 300 innings or more in 68 and 69.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mclaide01.shtml
"I just think it's best to err on the side of caution with young pitchers, and especially HS kids."
Exactly, it's not exactly too wise to risk a player's future by overworking a player this much. In the US, numerous HS kids are getting Tommy John surgery.
Denny McClain of the Tigers also threw 300 innings or more in 68 and 69.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mclaide01.shtml
"I just think it's best to err on the side of caution with young pitchers, and especially HS kids."
Exactly, it's not exactly too wise to risk a player's future by overworking a player this much. In the US, numerous HS kids are getting Tommy John surgery.
Re: HS pitcher throws 14 inning no-no
[ Author: niibu_yaa | Posted: Jul 17, 2005 2:57 PM
| FSH Fan
]
Thanks for mentioning Mickey Lolich in a Japanese baseball forum. I've been trying to think of what american pitcher Wada Tsuyoshi reminds me of. Now I know. His pitching style and Lolich are not a good match, but the workload they have is. They both are left handed and both managed to throw some real filthy looking pitchs late in the game to get strikes. I met Lolich last year at the autoshow in detroit. He was joking about a bet he made with his wife that he could fit in a Mini-Cooper.
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The Yomiuri Shimbun
A high school pitcher set a new world record when he tossed a no-hitter over 14 innings in a Saturday prefectural qualifier for the national baseball championship.
Right-handed sidearmer Shinji Hayashi, 17, of Izumi Chuo High School in Kagoshima, walked two, hit three batters and struck out 16 in his 180-pitch outing. He faced 48 batters and went the distance as Izumi Chuo beat Nakatane High School 1-0 to advance to the third round.
The previous record for the longest outing without allowing a hit and a run was 11 innings, held by Yutaka Enatsu of the Hanshin Tigers in 1973 and Sadaharu Oh of Waseda Jitsugyo High School, now manager of the Fukuoka Softbank Hawks, in 1957.
In the major leagues, four pitchers have pitched 10-inning no-hitters.
(Jul. 12, 2005)
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Pretty impressive, but the kid's manager should be fired for over-working such a young arm.