Camp updates

How is Matt Murton doing with this new team? He has shown he can hit in MLB.

His performance in the Okinawa camp was graded 3 which is acceptable. In the practice game he had his first hit in Japan. His role is intended to be centre but it is too early to say how he will perform.

"This is probably the moment that Johjima really became a Tiger - he hit a towering home run drawing cheers from the assembled fans."

And that was the whole purpose. He knew exactly what pitch was coming and the location. Nothing more than a PR stunt. Let's see how he goes against other teams' pitchers.

I am dubious about that theory. More likely the pitcher (I believe it was Uezono) isn't quite 100% yet. Remember this is just a training game and not even against a different team. Quite simply Johjima seized his chance.

I also don't care what Johjima does in practice games. Let's see what he can do in the real season. I remember Gabe Kapler hitting a towering home run in practice games too. What happened after that? Every pitcher in the CL learned what not to pitch him and he was back in America before long!

The significance of the home run is that it signaled the Tigers faithfuls' acceptance of Johjima as a Tiger which is why it is mentioned. Acceptance by the fans is vital for anyone who wants to play for the Tigers. Of course it isn't significant in real season terms but in terms of fitting into the side it is highly significant. Let's not miss the wood for the trees.

"Acceptance by the fans is vital for anyone who wants to play for the Tigers."

And that's why this guy who was a complete mess in the majors last year, hit a HR in his first AB. It was completely contrived.

Any "fan" who thinks a HR in an intra-squad game is anything to get excited about should probably have a big swig of a drink called reality.

BTW greats of the game succeed irrespective of what the fans think.

I rather think Johjima's problems in the majors last year were down to more complex causes. I might be wrong but I am assuming that you are new to Japanese baseball (apologies if I am wrong). Fan acceptance is important but it is not necessarily based on performance in major games. Accepted players can do very badly and still be adored. This makes it easier for them to overcome their difficulties. Players who are not accepted can play very well but will only earn limited praise. How Tigers fans accept the player is completely arbitrary and cannot be predicted but when it happens makes the player's life is a lot more comfortable. It is also unlikely that the HR was contrived because it would require a degree of planning and a level of conspiracy which would have been unusual for a practice game. There would also have been no guarantee that the desired result - Johjima's acceptance - would have followed. The more likely explanation but also the more mundane one is that it was a poor pitch that got punished. It's as simple as that.


[Edited by: Christopher on Feb 26, 2010 10:31 AM]

"Fan acceptance is important but it is not necessarily based on performance in major games. Accepted players can do very badly and still be adored."

Eurgh, tacky stereoptype of Japanese fandom. Who do you think you're speaking for? You can find fans like that anywhere.

"It is also unlikely that the HR was contrived because it would require a degree of planning and a level of conspiracy which would have been unusual for a practice game. "

Oh really now? Ever seen the Home Run Derby?


[Edited by: Christopher on Feb 26, 2010 12:46 PM] Edited to remove sarcastic comment.

What a lot of non-Japanese have a very big difficulty with understanding is the concept of the group and its importance. Yes, we might think we understand it on an intellectual level but we often fail to grasp the sheer emotional level involved. Acceptance by the group is vital for someone's wellbeing and also performance. There is nothing quite like this in other sporting cultures and it's nature is often quite alien to outsiders. So your misunderstanding of the comment is understandable. Certainly you might get isolated examples of this in other sporting cultures but in Japan this permeates every aspect of society and is ingrained in people from early childhood. There are groups for everything and it is important to grasp this when talking about Japanese baseball fans. They are probably the most organised and regimented groups of fans in the world. Japanese players come from the more conservative reaches of society where the group ethos holds even more weight. As a result they are even more susceptible to the pressures brought to bear by fans. If you're accepted you can get away with a lot - this is why Kiyohara and Kuwata could continue playing for so long whilst being well past their sell by dates. Imaoka on the other hand - once his performance dipped was consigned to the second team and finally dumped. It is why Hiyama will choose when he retires and not the team.
I am someone who is sceptical about conspiracy theories especially when a simple more mundane explanation exists. Most of the time the elaborate conspiracies fans imagine turn out to be the usual bad pitches and general incompetence that manifests itself in organised events. It is almost always more sensible to accept the less exciting explanation than the more fanciful one. The Home Run Derby whilst existing in Japan is not really valued. It's part of the All Star games but really is there because it's a copy of American baseball. Coaches and players for the most part do not value it and fans do not talk about it - it's of no interest. So with the practice game we have a pitcher who is still working up to full pace. He lets go a loose ball which the batter who has his eye in hits nicely. The fans like this and accept the batter - it's a simple explanation but one which fits the facts far better than the alternative.

Wow, what an outdated and cliched view of Japanese society. Something I'd typically expect from someone who's been here for just a few years, probably working in a non-Japanese environment with limited Japanese language ability.

You completely missed my point regarding the HR derby. You have never played an inning I assume (of course, my apologies if you have)

I'm afraid that Japanese society is still as I describe and the view is not outdated. Do not be misled by any seeming surface changes - the underlying situation hasn't changed that much if at all. The surface froth is just that, froth and only serves to hide the reality. This is still a group oriented society because it is backed up by hundreds of years of conditioning. Understanding the depth of this is essential before commenting.

And no I didn't get your point about the home run derby because it was so obscure. As I mentioned it is not something that people pay much attention to here. It is a bit of light entertainment introduced by MLB and that is all. Please explain what you mean by it.

It's completely possible that this home run was contrived. It happens in the Japanese game. It wasn't contrived when Sasaki struck out Kiyohara the last time they faced each other?

Of course it's possible but the more likely explanation is that it was a poor ball. Likewise the Sasaki stike out could have been contrived but remember Kiyohara by that time was old and slow and it was a piece of luck if he hit anything.

Yes, I agree that I could have struck out Kiyohara at that point in his career, but that moment was definitely contrived. I'm not too concerned about whether Johjima's home run was contrived or not, just don't put much weight on anything until the real games begin. I understand your point about its significance, but I think a lot of Tigers fans already see him as some kind of savior. Personally I don't buy it, but I certainly hope he proves me wrong this year. I'm going to two open-sen games in the coming weeks, so ready to turn off the ridiculous Olympics and see some real sports!

I am looking forward to seeing Johjima in Tigers colours but like you I don't feel that he's the saviour of the team. Too much emphasis is being placed on the fourth/first pattern of Hoshino and Okada's first two years and that this will follow for Mayumi. I don't see this as an automatic repeat. Mayumi still has a lot to prove as a manager to my mind. I haven't made any plans for the open sen yet but will probably make one or two as well.

On a related note to Johjima, are they still considering moving Kannoh to the outfield? In the recent interview, Johjima talks of his desire to play every game, which does not bode well for poor Kannoh!

Kanoh has been training and practising as a catcher and is due to start the Open Sen game against Orix (today) as catcher. The outfield proposal seems to have been put on ice for the moment. This game was a massacre and a short game report will appear in a different thread.

Oh my, these posts were of much amusement. Just like my Tiger fans friends. We always have the arguments about Hanshin with each other. Authentic Hanshin fans indeed!

Christopher, I appreciate with what you see but I cannot agree on Japanese as general as this. Society is complex and I don't like hearing, "Japanese fans are like (this) or (that)"

There are many kinds of fans and people in this society..

I would never dare to say, "Americans are like (this), or Amercian baseball fans do (that)"

Sorry if am unclear. I find it difficult to express this matter.

I agree that society is complex and this applies to Japanese society as well. However, one cannot really talk about Japanese society or Japanese baseball fans without mentioning the importance of the group. We non-Japanese have a great deal of difficulty with this concept because our societies are more individualistic. I meet many Japanese people in my work and they all belong to a group or subscribe to some form of group ethos. In fact it is very rare to meet someone who doesn't belong to any group. I see no great change in this situation - the group (of whatever form) is important and acceptance by the chosen group is vital for people's wellbeing. It may seem to you to be a generalisation but I do believe that it is one that is warranted and is born out by the actuality. Please note I am merely making an observation - I am not commenting on the rightness or wrongness of the situation.

My social anthropology teacher in high school used to say. This group vs individualistic society I think is rooted in rice vs wheat culture. Before, to be able to harvest rice you needed help as planting rice and harvesting was hard work where people helped each other where as with wheat you only had to throw the seeds and the plant would grow. As a Norwegian Japanese I thought this statement kind of made sense.

Another different aspect from European vs Japanese sports culture. Though it might it be a bad example because I am talking about 2 different sports is that football fans in Europe will go against their own team much faster than Japanese fans. Granted, you see baseball fans in Japan going against their own team too but not as much and not as easily.