June 12th Kubo v Yoshimi - Kanemoto provides the margin of victory
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Re: June 12th Kubo v Yoshimi - Kanemoto provides the margin of victory
[ Author: Guest: gotigersredsox | Posted: Jun 13, 2010 9:15 PM
]
The PL won big this year, but I really don't think it's because the CL teams weren't trying or don't take it serious. Every team wants to win the pennant, so every game is important. As for Ochiai's comment, that sounds like the kind of comment he would give to just about any question. Maybe teams don't care about the silly interleague prize, but I assure you they are taking every game seriously.
Re: June 12th Kubo v Yoshimi - Kanemoto provides the margin of victory
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Jun 14, 2010 9:39 AM
| HAN Fan
]
The Inter-league tournament is more important to the Pacific League than the Central League. Because of the attention that has been focused on the Giants and the Tigers, the Pacific League has rather not gotten the attention it deserves. It has also led at a fallacious impression that the Pacific League is somehow inferior which isn't the case. It just doesn't have a popularity driver of the level of Tigers/Giants. The Inter-league is a chance for the Pacific League teams to show that they aren't second rate and so they try harder. For the lesser Central League teams, they lose out on several of their Tigers and Giants games which is not welcome. Remember the Inter-League started with six games per team and has been scaled back. Central League teams would like to scale it back even more to 3 or 2 games per team. It is more of an inconvenience in that it takes away some of their revenue opportunities. About the only manager to really take the series seriously was Okada. For Tigers some of their preparation for the games was on the level of turn up on the day and see what happens. There is kind of a laziness in the Central League's approach to this.
Re: June 12th Kubo v Yoshimi - Kanemoto provides the margin of victory
[ Author: Guest: N26 | Posted: Jun 14, 2010 12:46 PM
]
It just sound like Ochiai and other Central League teams who say they are not trying hard to be sore losers.
Pacific League teams tend to do better because they got beter talent. Both in All Start and in Japan Series as well as Interleague, Pacific League teams tend to do better than CL.
Pacific League teams tend to do better because they got beter talent. Both in All Start and in Japan Series as well as Interleague, Pacific League teams tend to do better than CL.
Re: June 12th Kubo v Yoshimi - Kanemoto provides the margin of victory
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Jun 14, 2010 1:36 PM
| HAN Fan
]
I don't actually agree with the suggestion that either league has better talent. For a start there is too much crossover between the leagues for this to be true. The winning manager this year is ex-Central League. He has one of the least gifted sides in Japan. One cannot say that the Buffaloes are awash with huge amounts of talent. The Pacific League leaders lost the last series against the No. 4 team in the Central League. No, it is not a matter of talent but how the games are played. The Central League teams don't actually state openly that they aren't interested that much. The Pacific League though makes no bones about the fact that it feels second rate (but as I noted this is not the case) and resents it. This is what gives them the edge.
Re: June 12th Kubo v Yoshimi - Kanemoto provides the margin of victory
[ Author: Guest: Eric Lord | Posted: Jun 14, 2010 2:02 PM
]
As I see it, the reason for the PL's domination in the Inter-league standings has less to do with a percieved lack of motivation and more to do with scheduling and team makeup.
As a DH league, PL teams tend to prioritize overpowering pitching at the top of the rotation, whereas the CL is more about balanced consistency in their starters. This means that most of the real ace-quality beast pitchers are in the PL, and a quick glance through the facts confirms this - the last six Kawamura award winners have played in the PL (Wakui, Iwakuma, Darvish, Saito, Sugiuchi, and Kawakami), and this year pretty much every PL team has an absolutely lights-out ace at the top of their rotation, with a second starter who could probably fill the ace role on most teams in the Central. I mean...
Nippon Ham - Darvish, Takeda (and Keppel isn't shabby either)
Rakuten - Iwakuma, Ma-kun (probably the best 1-2 in the league)
Seibu - Wakui, Kishi (with a really good 3-man in Hoashi)
Softbank - Sugiuchi, Wada
Lotte - Naruse, Watanabe (admittedly Shunsuke is having an off year)
The only team that lacks a really overpowering 1-2 combination of rotation pitchers is Orix - the five pairs I listed I rate higher than any Central League rotation. The only Central League pitcher who I feel could be the top starter for any of those five teams is Maeda Kenta.
Now, the interleague schedule, unlike the normal CL and PL schedules, has lots of off days - each 2-game series is followed by an off day, or often two if the games are at an open stadium and a reserve rainout day is scheduled. These extra days rest allow teams to go with a shorter rotation, which means the CL teams are seeing more of Darvish and Wakui than they normally would in a normal schedule of games. This obviously favors the teams with the better aces, since they pitch a proportionally higher percentage of games.
Basically, the number of off days and the PL's superior top-of-rotation pitching is the reason that the PL is so dominant in inter-league.
As a DH league, PL teams tend to prioritize overpowering pitching at the top of the rotation, whereas the CL is more about balanced consistency in their starters. This means that most of the real ace-quality beast pitchers are in the PL, and a quick glance through the facts confirms this - the last six Kawamura award winners have played in the PL (Wakui, Iwakuma, Darvish, Saito, Sugiuchi, and Kawakami), and this year pretty much every PL team has an absolutely lights-out ace at the top of their rotation, with a second starter who could probably fill the ace role on most teams in the Central. I mean...
Nippon Ham - Darvish, Takeda (and Keppel isn't shabby either)
Rakuten - Iwakuma, Ma-kun (probably the best 1-2 in the league)
Seibu - Wakui, Kishi (with a really good 3-man in Hoashi)
Softbank - Sugiuchi, Wada
Lotte - Naruse, Watanabe (admittedly Shunsuke is having an off year)
The only team that lacks a really overpowering 1-2 combination of rotation pitchers is Orix - the five pairs I listed I rate higher than any Central League rotation. The only Central League pitcher who I feel could be the top starter for any of those five teams is Maeda Kenta.
Now, the interleague schedule, unlike the normal CL and PL schedules, has lots of off days - each 2-game series is followed by an off day, or often two if the games are at an open stadium and a reserve rainout day is scheduled. These extra days rest allow teams to go with a shorter rotation, which means the CL teams are seeing more of Darvish and Wakui than they normally would in a normal schedule of games. This obviously favors the teams with the better aces, since they pitch a proportionally higher percentage of games.
Basically, the number of off days and the PL's superior top-of-rotation pitching is the reason that the PL is so dominant in inter-league.
Re: June 12th Kubo v Yoshimi - Kanemoto provides the margin of victory
[ Author: Guest: N26 | Posted: Jun 14, 2010 6:10 PM
]
In All Star. Pacific have won 75 games and Central 69. In Inter league the Pacific teams have won each season and are dominating this season as well. In Inter League this season the Pacific teams have been dominating so far with a 80w 56l.With the exception of 1 season the 2009 season the Pacific teams have had a winning record against Central. And the Pacific league teams have won every single Inter League season since it started in 2005 when they used to play 6 times against each other.
There is a quite common agreement among baseball fans in Japan that Pacific League has a slighter higher standard than Central. There is the Japanese phrase. " jitsuryoku no pa, ninki no se" which means something like. The talented Pacific and the popular Central.
There is a quite common agreement among baseball fans in Japan that Pacific League has a slighter higher standard than Central. There is the Japanese phrase. " jitsuryoku no pa, ninki no se" which means something like. The talented Pacific and the popular Central.
Re: June 12th Kubo v Yoshimi - Kanemoto provides the margin of victory
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Jun 14, 2010 7:58 PM
| HAN Fan
]
I am wary of raw figures - for example since 2001 the Central League has dominated the All Star Games (11-6). We also know that one Inter-league contest was decided on the games won the season before so all is not so clearcut. Of course Yokohama were genuinely appalling this year but then Swallows had problems with the manager and couldn't win anything. That also distorts the figures significantly and it is interesting that their performance was much better after the new manager took control. The two strongest teams in the Pacific League struggled against the Carp in their final series - Carp also have a new manager. My own Tigers started badly and only really started to get going later on. They had rotation problems as well with Nohmi and Iwata out of action. They also had a manager who misused his relief pitching gifting victories to the opposition. I have heard your comment but mostly from Pacific League fans not Central League fans. No it is not that the Pacific League is better quality otherwise more people would watch it but that there are more things to take into account. You might argue that the management is better or that they want to win more and your point would be more valid.
I took a look at Tigers record against the Pacific League 'super aces'. It was actually very good. Tigers lost to Tanaka but beat Iwakuma. They beat Darvish and kept Sugiuchi and Takeda under control. They only really had any trouble with Wakui but here I noticed a figure that was disturbing. In his two games against Tigers Wakui pitched 17 innings throwing 283 pitches. Was this necessary? Or does it demonstrate a such a desire to prove that you are better that you are willing to risk your best pitcher's arm?
I took a look at Tigers record against the Pacific League 'super aces'. It was actually very good. Tigers lost to Tanaka but beat Iwakuma. They beat Darvish and kept Sugiuchi and Takeda under control. They only really had any trouble with Wakui but here I noticed a figure that was disturbing. In his two games against Tigers Wakui pitched 17 innings throwing 283 pitches. Was this necessary? Or does it demonstrate a such a desire to prove that you are better that you are willing to risk your best pitcher's arm?
Re: June 12th Kubo v Yoshimi - Kanemoto provides the margin of victory
[ Author: Guest: Eric Lord | Posted: Jun 15, 2010 6:43 PM
]
Fair point about the Tigers, but it should be pointed out that they finished second among CL teams in the Interleague standings, behind only Kyojin. I'd rather have a look at each PL team's "super aces", as you put it, and see how they fared against the CL this year.
Sugiuchi (Softbank)
5 games (YAK, YOM, HAN, YAK, YOM), 2-1 record
31.3 IP, 4.60 ERA, 1.34 WHIP
Team's record in Sugiuchi's starts: 3-1-1
Darvish (Nippon Ham)
4 games (HIR, YOK, HAN, CHU), 1-2 record
29 IP, 1.24 ERA, 1.20 WHIP
Team's record in Darvish's starts: 1-3
Wakui (Seibu)
5 games (YOK, CHU, HAN, YOK, HAN), 4-1 record
41 IP, 2.19 ERA, 0.97 WHIP
Team's record in Wakui's starts: 4-1
Naruse (Lotte)
5 games (YOM, YAK, HIR, YOM, HIR), 2-2 record
35.6 IP, 2.52 ERA, 0.81 WHIP
Team's record in Naruse's starts: 2-2-1
Iwakuma (Rakuten)
5 games (HAN, YOM, HIR, YOK, YAK), 0-2 record
39.3 IP, 3.20 ERA, 1.22 WHIP
Team's record in Iwakuma's starts: 2-3
Tanaka (Rakuten)
5 games (HAN, CHU, HIR, YOM, YAK), 4-1 record
38 IP, 2.60 ERA, 1.26 WHIP
Team's record in Ma-kun's starts: 4-1
Overall PL aces
29 games, 13-9 record
214.3 IP, 2.72 ERA, 1.12 WHIP
PL's overall record in "ace" starts: 16-11-2
It's interesting to see that the PL aces actually put up very good statistical numbers - probably the worst two of the bunch were Suguchi and Iwakuma. Darvish had a bit of a raw deal in terms of wins and losses - while his ERA was an absolutely insane 1.24, the Fighters gave him very little help. They put up 9 runs in his win against Chunichi, but in his other three starts they scored 0,1, and 2 runs respectively. Also, this list doesn't include a single Orix pitcher, who were all very good in this year's interleague, but lack the reputation of the six "aces" I listed here.
Anyway, since I'm bored and it's raining, let's do a similar analysis of the CL's 6 "aces" in interleague play - Utsumi for the Giants, Kubo for the Tigers, Chen for Chunichi, Miura for Yokohama, Maeda for the Carp, and Ishikawa for Yakult. Kubo isn't exactly an ace-quality pitcher, but he's the best Hanshin has right now and also has the reputation of being very good in interleague play, so I'm including him here.
Maeda (Hiroshima)
5 games (NIP, SOF, LOT, NIP, LOT), 3-0 record
43 IP, 1.04 ERA, 0.86 WHIP
Team's record in Mae-ken's starts: 3-0-2
Kubo (Hanshin)
6 games (NIP, SOF, LOT, NIP, SOF, LOT), 2-1 record
44.6 IP, 2.21 ERA, 1.01 WHIP
Team's record in Kubo's starts: 5-1
Utsumi (Yomiuri)
4 games (NIP, ORI, LOT, RAK), 0-2 record
27 IP, 3.33 ERA, 1.00 WHIP
Team's record in Utsumi's starts: 2-2
Chen (Chunichi)
5 games (SOF, SEI, SOF, LOT, RAK), 3-1 record
33.3 IP, 2.16 ERA, 1.08 WHIP
Team's record in Chen's starts: 4-1
Ishikawa (Yakult)
5 games (ORI, SEI, ORI, SEI, RAK), 2-1 record
32 IP, 3.09 ERA, 1.31 WHIP
Team's record in Ishikawa's starts: 2-3
Miura (Yokohama)
5 games (SEI, NIP, LOT, RAK, ORI), 1-3 record
27.6 IP, 6.52 ERA, 1.63 WHIP
Team's record in Miura's starts: 1-4
Overall CL aces
30 games, 11-8 record
207.6 IP, 2.81 ERA, 1.12 WHIP
CL's overall record in "ace" starts: 17-11-2
Huh, pretty much exactly identical. Guess there goes my theory out the window after all, haha. Looks like Kubo's reputation as an inter-league monster is well-deserved. Also, Maeda Kenta is probably the best pitcher in Japan right now. Those numbers are absolutely insane.
Sugiuchi (Softbank)
5 games (YAK, YOM, HAN, YAK, YOM), 2-1 record
31.3 IP, 4.60 ERA, 1.34 WHIP
Team's record in Sugiuchi's starts: 3-1-1
Darvish (Nippon Ham)
4 games (HIR, YOK, HAN, CHU), 1-2 record
29 IP, 1.24 ERA, 1.20 WHIP
Team's record in Darvish's starts: 1-3
Wakui (Seibu)
5 games (YOK, CHU, HAN, YOK, HAN), 4-1 record
41 IP, 2.19 ERA, 0.97 WHIP
Team's record in Wakui's starts: 4-1
Naruse (Lotte)
5 games (YOM, YAK, HIR, YOM, HIR), 2-2 record
35.6 IP, 2.52 ERA, 0.81 WHIP
Team's record in Naruse's starts: 2-2-1
Iwakuma (Rakuten)
5 games (HAN, YOM, HIR, YOK, YAK), 0-2 record
39.3 IP, 3.20 ERA, 1.22 WHIP
Team's record in Iwakuma's starts: 2-3
Tanaka (Rakuten)
5 games (HAN, CHU, HIR, YOM, YAK), 4-1 record
38 IP, 2.60 ERA, 1.26 WHIP
Team's record in Ma-kun's starts: 4-1
Overall PL aces
29 games, 13-9 record
214.3 IP, 2.72 ERA, 1.12 WHIP
PL's overall record in "ace" starts: 16-11-2
It's interesting to see that the PL aces actually put up very good statistical numbers - probably the worst two of the bunch were Suguchi and Iwakuma. Darvish had a bit of a raw deal in terms of wins and losses - while his ERA was an absolutely insane 1.24, the Fighters gave him very little help. They put up 9 runs in his win against Chunichi, but in his other three starts they scored 0,1, and 2 runs respectively. Also, this list doesn't include a single Orix pitcher, who were all very good in this year's interleague, but lack the reputation of the six "aces" I listed here.
Anyway, since I'm bored and it's raining, let's do a similar analysis of the CL's 6 "aces" in interleague play - Utsumi for the Giants, Kubo for the Tigers, Chen for Chunichi, Miura for Yokohama, Maeda for the Carp, and Ishikawa for Yakult. Kubo isn't exactly an ace-quality pitcher, but he's the best Hanshin has right now and also has the reputation of being very good in interleague play, so I'm including him here.
Maeda (Hiroshima)
5 games (NIP, SOF, LOT, NIP, LOT), 3-0 record
43 IP, 1.04 ERA, 0.86 WHIP
Team's record in Mae-ken's starts: 3-0-2
Kubo (Hanshin)
6 games (NIP, SOF, LOT, NIP, SOF, LOT), 2-1 record
44.6 IP, 2.21 ERA, 1.01 WHIP
Team's record in Kubo's starts: 5-1
Utsumi (Yomiuri)
4 games (NIP, ORI, LOT, RAK), 0-2 record
27 IP, 3.33 ERA, 1.00 WHIP
Team's record in Utsumi's starts: 2-2
Chen (Chunichi)
5 games (SOF, SEI, SOF, LOT, RAK), 3-1 record
33.3 IP, 2.16 ERA, 1.08 WHIP
Team's record in Chen's starts: 4-1
Ishikawa (Yakult)
5 games (ORI, SEI, ORI, SEI, RAK), 2-1 record
32 IP, 3.09 ERA, 1.31 WHIP
Team's record in Ishikawa's starts: 2-3
Miura (Yokohama)
5 games (SEI, NIP, LOT, RAK, ORI), 1-3 record
27.6 IP, 6.52 ERA, 1.63 WHIP
Team's record in Miura's starts: 1-4
Overall CL aces
30 games, 11-8 record
207.6 IP, 2.81 ERA, 1.12 WHIP
CL's overall record in "ace" starts: 17-11-2
Huh, pretty much exactly identical. Guess there goes my theory out the window after all, haha. Looks like Kubo's reputation as an inter-league monster is well-deserved. Also, Maeda Kenta is probably the best pitcher in Japan right now. Those numbers are absolutely insane.
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Starting lineups
Tigers
1. Toritani (Short)
2. Hirano (Second)
3. Murton (Left)
4. Kanemoto (DH)
5. Arai (Third)
6. Brazell (First)
7. Johjima (Catcher)
8. Sakurai (Right)
9. Asai (Centre)
Pitcher was Kubo
Marines
1. Nishioka (Short)
2. Imae (Third)
3. Iguchi (Second)
4. Kim (First)
5. Ohmatsu (Left)
6. Saburo (Right)
7. Fukuura (DH)
8. Satozaki (Catcher)
9. Okada (Centre)
Pitcher was Yoshimi
Toritani started the game off by hitting the ball back at Yoshimi who couldn't take. Hirano bunted Toritani to second and the latter moved round to third on Murton's ground out. However, Kanemoto struck out looking to end the first. Marines first was short with only Imae making any impression with a one out two base. The next two batters went for their first pitches and both grounded out. With one out in the second Yoshimi made the mistake of leaving a very inviting pitch for Brazell. He slammed it into the back screen for a solo home run 1-0 Tigers. Johjima hit and then stole second - Satozaki being rather unaware. Asai though struck out to end the innings. Ohmatsu led off Marines second with a hit but then the next three batters went nowhere and Ohmatsu was stranded on second (courtesy of Saburo's ground out). Nice work by the Tigers pitcher in protecting the lead. In Tigers third Murton hit but nothing came of this. Marines got another runner on base in the third - once again it was Imae but he didn't get anywhere either and things remained nicely poised.
With both Arai and Brazell out in Tigers fourth it was Johjima's turn to hit a solo home run which he did putting it nicely into the left stand 2-0 Tigers. Sakurai then followed up with a three base hit and this really should have been converted but Asai struck out looking to end the innings. Kubo's control wandered in the bottom though. He is pitching much better this year but he managed to dead ball Ohmatsu. A wild pitch took the runner to second but Kubo didn't let it get to him and made sure that the runner didn't make home, striking out the next two batters. Murton hit a nice two base in Tigers fifth. Kanemoto was next and he pulled one nicely to right to bring Murton home 3-0 Tigers, runner on first. Tigers were gradually stretching away. Arai took a dead ball which put runners on first and second but then Brazell flew out to centre. There were runs to be had but not in huge amounts and they had to be worked for. Marines fifth, disappointingly for them, was quiet with the batters going down in order. Tigers sixth was pitched by Uchi, the struggling Yoshimi having been replaced. He gave up a two base hit to Asai but Toritani lined out to second and the innings was over without the score being added to. Marines sixth was another quiet innings - they were unable to break Kubo's stranglehold.
Uchi was replaced by Furuya for Tigers seventh. He left one invitingly poised for Kanemoto to hit and Kanemoto did just that for a solo home run 4-0 Tigers. Kubo issued his first walk in Marines seventh - a lead off too Ohmatsu but then retired the next three batters comfortably. Tigers eighth saw Brazell strike out and then out came Furuya to be replaced by Yamada. He got Johjima and Sakurai to ground out and end the innings. Kubo returned for the Marines eighth which wasn't such a bad decision - he was looking at a shutout. This wasn't to be. He got the first two outs but then Imae hit a solo home run to right centre 4-1 Tigers. Iguchi hit to left and then Kubo struck out Marines star batter looking with a magnificent pitch. He had done well and would retire after the eighth. There was no point asking him to pitch the ninth. In Tigers ninth Toritani walked but nothing came of this. Marines ninth was pitched by Kyuji who surprisingly hasn't got a save at Chiba Marines stadium. He got Ohmatsu but then surprisingly walked Saburo in four as his control wandered. There then followed an epic battle with Fukuura until the Marines DH flew out. This obviously took something out of Kyuji as his next pitch to Takehara was in the middle of the zone and eminently hittable. Takehara did just that putting it over centre for a timely two base 4-2 Tigers, runner on second. Muniz was next but after working the count full he stuck out swinging to end the game. Tigers victory.
This victory gave Tigers the series against the Marines and all the latter can do on Sunday is to get a consolation victory. Kyuji picked up the save and now has saves at 12 stadiums in Japan. The victory went to Kubo who once again pitched well and is now considered Tigers ace. Kanemoto did well, driving in 2 runs and if he continues like this it won't be so bad when he returns to the left field against Yokohama.