October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
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Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: gotigersredsox | Posted: Oct 17, 2011 11:55 AM
]
A bummer missing out on the CS, but a fresh start next year. The more I think about it, the more I hope they push hard for Ochiai. The Dragons have been our main nemesis the past several years and it would be great to have someone who completely knows that team. Additionally, Ochiai would probably love beating Chunichi after they foolishly let him go.
Still, the main thing will be someone good at developing young players. With Murton possibly going, Katsuragi and Sakurai gone, and Kanemoto hopefully not an everyday player, there might be a big youth movement in the outfield. (Of course we have Lin, but it's pretty certain at this stage he won't be a starter.) Additionally, we need to convert at least one of our young pitchers into a consistent starter. Our young pitchers all play scared, as they know they usually only get one shot. They need coaches who believe in them.
Still, the main thing will be someone good at developing young players. With Murton possibly going, Katsuragi and Sakurai gone, and Kanemoto hopefully not an everyday player, there might be a big youth movement in the outfield. (Of course we have Lin, but it's pretty certain at this stage he won't be a starter.) Additionally, we need to convert at least one of our young pitchers into a consistent starter. Our young pitchers all play scared, as they know they usually only get one shot. They need coaches who believe in them.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: what? | Posted: Oct 18, 2011 12:13 AM
]
Sakurai gone?? I must have missed that, where did you go to?
Im hoping a holiday only cause hes one player i really hoped would make a comeback next year
Im hoping a holiday only cause hes one player i really hoped would make a comeback next year
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: Stevesayskanpai | Posted: Oct 18, 2011 4:05 AM
]
Hurrah! It finally happened...and only two years too late.
Let's hope next year is a new beginning.
By the way, what's the story on Murton and Brazell for next season - chances of departure?
Let's hope next year is a new beginning.
By the way, what's the story on Murton and Brazell for next season - chances of departure?
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Oct 18, 2011 9:46 AM
| HAN Fan
]
To answer the questions
Sakurai - the coaches decided that his hitting is not going to return and so have recommended that he receive a pink slip. I too view this as short-sighted and am hoping that it might be reversed with new management.
Brazell - Will be re-signed
Murton - Tigers would like to re-sign him for next season and have made their interest plain. However, he is also attracting Major League interest and is rumoured to want to return there. At the moment nothing is fixed but it is likely that he will not return to Tigers.
Sakurai - the coaches decided that his hitting is not going to return and so have recommended that he receive a pink slip. I too view this as short-sighted and am hoping that it might be reversed with new management.
Brazell - Will be re-signed
Murton - Tigers would like to re-sign him for next season and have made their interest plain. However, he is also attracting Major League interest and is rumoured to want to return there. At the moment nothing is fixed but it is likely that he will not return to Tigers.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: Arthur | Posted: Oct 18, 2011 6:18 PM
]
While we're on the subject of players for next year, I hope we go for Kurihara. I know he's a first baseman and we've already got Brazell, but we're badly in need of some more run producers next season, especially when you consider how old some of our players are getting in the next few years.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: On Murton | Posted: Oct 18, 2011 7:26 PM
]
There was a really good article/interview with him on ESPN and he seemed pretty committed to going back to ply his trade in the Majors. While he didn't denigrate NPB he did say it was still somewhere between AAA and the bigs and he felt that he really had a point to prove. From that article I really feel like he'll be going back which will leave Hanshin with a big hole to fill at least, offensively.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: guest | Posted: Oct 18, 2011 8:46 PM
]
Do you have a link to that Murton interview/article?
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Oct 18, 2011 8:58 PM
| HAN Fan
]
The most recent comments by Murton were in Nikkan Sports but are in Japanese. A look at Yakyu Baka will produce a good translation of them. The Article would seem to be the 7th January one this year. It's locatable if you search ESPN under Murton.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: N26 | Posted: Oct 23, 2011 8:18 AM
]
The real reason for Murton's departure is because Japan is not a Christian fundamentalist country like USA. Some of his hero interviews where he talks about "god" has been beyond belief. I wish he could take his god and shove it up some place . Had it not been for his screwed up medieval beliefs I am sure he could have stayed longer in Japan. The thought that the majority of the people. Close up to 100% of the population do not believe in his god probably stresses him out. I am not sure why he needs to keep mentioning him all the time. How ethnocentric can you get? For the same reason, I do not think I would ever want to live in a country like USA surrounded by the likes of Murton on a daily basis. Maybe some places in USA you have more rational ordinary people than the thick depressing bible belt.
By the looks of things, Tigers is looking for some home grown talent instead of Ochiai. Wada by the looks of things will be the next manager. Wada MIGHT be a huge success. It is fully understandable that Hanshin is looking at their own first.
By the looks of things, Tigers is looking for some home grown talent instead of Ochiai. Wada by the looks of things will be the next manager. Wada MIGHT be a huge success. It is fully understandable that Hanshin is looking at their own first.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Oct 23, 2011 9:59 AM
| HAN Fan
]
Rather dispeptic? It may indeed be that Murton has been dissatisfied with the level of Christianity in Japan but his play does not suggest that - in fact both years he has performed well. However, he's always been interested in returning to the Majors (like Scott Atchison) and I think that this as much as anything drives him.
The problem with Hanshin choosing their own is that their own have been unsuccessful to date. The idea that you can put a monkey in a Tigers uniform and call it kantoku and everything will be OK has long since had its day. Outside talent is needed to refresh and revitilise organisations not insiders with no experience.
The problem with Hanshin choosing their own is that their own have been unsuccessful to date. The idea that you can put a monkey in a Tigers uniform and call it kantoku and everything will be OK has long since had its day. Outside talent is needed to refresh and revitilise organisations not insiders with no experience.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: Zman | Posted: Oct 23, 2011 12:16 PM
]
Christopher, perhaps Hanshin will bring back Okada? Clearly he is a better coach, his recent success at Orix, than you ever gave him credit for. At least with Mayumi you knew early and correctly that he was clearly just filling out the uniform.
Ochiai is the way to go. He is smarter than any other manager in NPB, at least in the CL for sure. About three steps ahead of any of them. He is the La Russa of NPB.
No more retread Hanshin players for manager for now. Let them learn under Ochiai for five years or so.
Ochiai is the way to go. He is smarter than any other manager in NPB, at least in the CL for sure. About three steps ahead of any of them. He is the La Russa of NPB.
No more retread Hanshin players for manager for now. Let them learn under Ochiai for five years or so.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Oct 23, 2011 12:21 PM
| HAN Fan
]
It would certainly be nice to get Ochiai but it's almost signed sealed and delivered that the new kantoku will be Wada (currently the batting coach). He is going to need a head coach to teach him how to manage a team and what is more will probably be on a three year contract.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: N26 | Posted: Oct 23, 2011 11:54 PM
]
You come with a fair point. Christopher. However, I think Murton should become a Buddhist instead. Even better scrap his USA passport and embrace Buddhism. While Tigers will miss his bat, I am sure no one will miss his religious big mouth. To me that shows what is wrong with many Americans in general. Big mouths who do not know when to shut up and extremely superstitious as well. They are stuck in midevial European times. I try to imagine if some European athelete started mumbling about God like Murton does. They might be put in a mental asylumn but in USA that is the norm.
While, I agree that Ochiai is a good manager and I said before that it would be the wisest move of Hanshin to go after Ochiai some time back. I think it is too early to say anything about Wada. Guardiola for Barcelona was a home grown but not a very experienced manager but in his first year managing Barcelona, he did wonders for the team. This could very well happen with the Tigers.
While, I agree that Ochiai is a good manager and I said before that it would be the wisest move of Hanshin to go after Ochiai some time back. I think it is too early to say anything about Wada. Guardiola for Barcelona was a home grown but not a very experienced manager but in his first year managing Barcelona, he did wonders for the team. This could very well happen with the Tigers.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Oct 24, 2011 11:12 AM
| HAN Fan
]
I rather regard Murton's references to God as a personal quirk not anything to get excised about. After all he doesn't express controversial views or try and convert but just indicates that he believes his success comes from God. I have no problems with that and it does no harm. It might well be different in Europe but then countries are different. I would be careful about generalising about the US though - it's a very varied country and not everyone is a tub thumper.
The issue about Wada is really the people choosing him. They haven't had a good success rate so far and he has been chosen because he is an insider NOT because he is a good manager (he has no experience). Think about it - one of the the biggest jobs in Japanese baseball is blythely handed to a complete tyro. It is not a selection that gives one confidence in the outcome given that two highly experienced and successful managers who were available were ignored for him. I do wish him the best but am not particularly enthusiastic about the choice.
The issue about Wada is really the people choosing him. They haven't had a good success rate so far and he has been chosen because he is an insider NOT because he is a good manager (he has no experience). Think about it - one of the the biggest jobs in Japanese baseball is blythely handed to a complete tyro. It is not a selection that gives one confidence in the outcome given that two highly experienced and successful managers who were available were ignored for him. I do wish him the best but am not particularly enthusiastic about the choice.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: Arthur | Posted: Oct 24, 2011 12:42 PM
]
You could say that our batting has been one of the positives of the last two seasons (highest team ERA in the CL) but I went to the game yesterday (I'll rant in the match report about that) and what I saw was not good batting at all. None of our hitters (Murton and Toritani aside) showed any application whatsoever. 'Swing at everything' is not a good tactic. Shibata and Hirano grounding out to their first pitches in the first inning summed it up nicely. We have good hitters, but they're not well coached.
I've also just seen Kanemoto might be offered a coaching job. Save us.
I've also just seen Kanemoto might be offered a coaching job. Save us.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: N26 | Posted: Oct 24, 2011 7:36 PM
]
USA is allright. As a symbol of the west and an extention of European culture it is easy to relate to therefore also easy to criticize. Their religious fanatisism is one of them. That and their hillarious nationalism. Ever wonder why USA is at war with Al Qaeda? It is because they share more similarities than differences. Both being religious fanatics. Including Murton. Why are they so religious in USA? They are even more religious than Israel.
Come to think of it. The reason why Ochiai will probably never ever manage Tigers or at least for the next ten years is because despite his success and Ochiai being a living legend. He is despised in much of Japan. And especially among Tigers fans. This is the guy who has been more successful than Nagashima. Has had an unbelievable career as a player and as a manager yet the majority of the people in Japan do not like him. He is a bit like Mourinho though he never was a player only manager. He is successful but most people can't stand him. The same with Ochiai. While I think he was a great player and manager I regard him as a bit weird.
This clip talks about why Ochiai is despised despite his record which do speak for itself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXv2A33ZWfw&feature=related
Come to think of it. The reason why Ochiai will probably never ever manage Tigers or at least for the next ten years is because despite his success and Ochiai being a living legend. He is despised in much of Japan. And especially among Tigers fans. This is the guy who has been more successful than Nagashima. Has had an unbelievable career as a player and as a manager yet the majority of the people in Japan do not like him. He is a bit like Mourinho though he never was a player only manager. He is successful but most people can't stand him. The same with Ochiai. While I think he was a great player and manager I regard him as a bit weird.
This clip talks about why Ochiai is despised despite his record which do speak for itself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXv2A33ZWfw&feature=related
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: Mookster | Posted: Oct 25, 2011 9:27 PM
]
"That and their hillarious nationalism"
Wow, surprised the moderator (MIchael??) is allowing such ignorant generalizations with non-intelligent country bashing to get posted. Not all Americans are like this individual describes. Let's stick to baseball. Save your comments about politics and religion for another board and before you assume, I'm an atheist so don't play that card with me pal. Grow up
Wow, surprised the moderator (MIchael??) is allowing such ignorant generalizations with non-intelligent country bashing to get posted. Not all Americans are like this individual describes. Let's stick to baseball. Save your comments about politics and religion for another board and before you assume, I'm an atheist so don't play that card with me pal. Grow up
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Oct 26, 2011 8:51 AM
| HAN Fan
]
I did think very carefully about whether to post this or reject it. In the end I decided that it would be best to attempt to educate the poster. It might not work but one has to try. However, I eventually had to remind the poster that this is not a political forum. Perhaps that comment should have been edited out.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: gotigersredsox | Posted: Oct 24, 2011 8:55 PM
]
I get annoyed with God-thanking pro athletes as much as anyone, but a bit harsh on Murton here. It's one thing if he praises God in hero interviews, it's another if he proselytizes his teammates or the fans. As far as I know, he hasn't crossed the line at all and done the latter. He seems to be well-liked as a teammate and he is immensely popular amongst the fans, who as far as I know have no problem with his beliefs. They don't quite understand it, but they don't hold it against him.
One thing I love about Japan is religion is a very personal thing and hardly anyone proselytizes (except for the occasional "Let me pray for your happiness" weirdos). But it's silly to suggest that Murton should become a Buddhist. How many of his teammates would claim to be devout Buddhists? Remember Willie Davis? He thought it would work out so well here because he was a Buddhist. Didn't exactly happen that way. Again, although he was a Buddhist, there was a big cultural divide about how to express this.
Not being a Buddhist or not having enough Christian camaraderie has obviously had no effect on how well Murton has fit in or performed here. He has just completed two of the most impressive offensive seasons in the history of Japanese baseball. He is still fairly young, so he just sees MLB as a bigger stage and dream that he should give another shot.
Unfair to limit superstition to religious. Baseball on either side of the pond has always been full of superstition. Ever watch Ichiro stretch before batting? Superstition. Ever heard Ichiro eats the same food before every game? Superstition. Pro baseball players are a quirky lot. Has nothing to do with religion.
One thing I love about Japan is religion is a very personal thing and hardly anyone proselytizes (except for the occasional "Let me pray for your happiness" weirdos). But it's silly to suggest that Murton should become a Buddhist. How many of his teammates would claim to be devout Buddhists? Remember Willie Davis? He thought it would work out so well here because he was a Buddhist. Didn't exactly happen that way. Again, although he was a Buddhist, there was a big cultural divide about how to express this.
Not being a Buddhist or not having enough Christian camaraderie has obviously had no effect on how well Murton has fit in or performed here. He has just completed two of the most impressive offensive seasons in the history of Japanese baseball. He is still fairly young, so he just sees MLB as a bigger stage and dream that he should give another shot.
Unfair to limit superstition to religious. Baseball on either side of the pond has always been full of superstition. Ever watch Ichiro stretch before batting? Superstition. Ever heard Ichiro eats the same food before every game? Superstition. Pro baseball players are a quirky lot. Has nothing to do with religion.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Oct 24, 2011 9:13 PM
| HAN Fan
]
Complex issues are being simplified here - I would be very careful not to tar the USA or its citizens with too broad a brush. However, I do not want things to drift onto other non-baseball subjects. This is not a political forum.
Actually the manager Tigers fans would have hated was Valentine not Ochiai. In polls Ochiai always rated quite highly (above Wada in particular). Ochiai is a maverick and so you are right that certain elements dislike him but not Tigers fans. He doesn't have time for the usual style of behaviour that is expected and this is refreshing. But do remember that the Japanese publishing industry and press is extremely xenophobic and dislikes depatures from the norm. This is why you will read a lot of critical comment about him.
Actually the manager Tigers fans would have hated was Valentine not Ochiai. In polls Ochiai always rated quite highly (above Wada in particular). Ochiai is a maverick and so you are right that certain elements dislike him but not Tigers fans. He doesn't have time for the usual style of behaviour that is expected and this is refreshing. But do remember that the Japanese publishing industry and press is extremely xenophobic and dislikes depatures from the norm. This is why you will read a lot of critical comment about him.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: gotigersredsox | Posted: Oct 24, 2011 9:29 PM
]
I'm sure you all remember a whole chapter of "You Gotta Have Wa" devoted to Ochiai's playing days. The chapter was appropriately titled "The Gaijin Who Spoke Japanese." So, he has indeed always been a maverick. I think that's what the Tigers need right now.
Living near Koshien, I consider the Tigers my local team and I care more about what they do than any MLB team. So, it does seem disrespectful to the fans not to go after the most-qualified manager available. Tickets aren't cheap. I pay for 10-12 games a year and I want to see my team win, not just see them be over-conservative and take care of their own. I don't recall who else was available when they hired the unproven Mayumi. This time, however, there are two managers with proven track records who are being passed over.
Living near Koshien, I consider the Tigers my local team and I care more about what they do than any MLB team. So, it does seem disrespectful to the fans not to go after the most-qualified manager available. Tickets aren't cheap. I pay for 10-12 games a year and I want to see my team win, not just see them be over-conservative and take care of their own. I don't recall who else was available when they hired the unproven Mayumi. This time, however, there are two managers with proven track records who are being passed over.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: N26 | Posted: Oct 25, 2011 10:17 AM
]
The media does not like Ochiai as he makes the job difficult for them. Also, during WBC, Ochiai did not send any of his players. He likes to go his own ways. But the bottom line is that, Tigers management and fans for the most part do not like him. And they would much rather have one of their own people than an outsider. It's all about heart and little brains by chossing Wada. Having one of your own people bringing success to the team is what the management and the fans want the most by the looks of things. I thought the idea of bringing Ochiai was interesting and good, but the idea was just too radiacal for the team I guess.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Oct 25, 2011 10:40 AM
| HAN Fan
]
As I mentioned polls indicated that Tigers fans liked Ochiai as a possible candidate. The favourite was Hirata though but the management doesn't like him at all and so he wasn't chosen. Ochiai was in second place as far as the fans were concerned. Tigers fans are actually rather perceptive and they know when they're being sold a pup. Wada was not a popular candidate and really the fans want someone who can deliver victory.
Re: October 16th Nohmi v Ohtake - Mayumi resigns
[ Author: Guest: gotigersredsox | Posted: Oct 25, 2011 2:27 PM
]
I also think there is a big divide between what the fans want and what management wants. All the Tigers fans I talked to were very excited about the prospect of getting Ochiai. Of course in a perfect world they would also like to see one of their own succeed--Mayumi was very popular when he first started--but I think for the fans the bottom line is winning. I can't say 100% that that is the top priority for management. To be fair, one sad fact about American sports is that there is not the loyalty and homegrown talent that there used to be. However, as a frustrated Tigers fan, I just want to win! We need an outsider with a proven track record. It doesn't look like we are going to get that.
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Starting lineups
Carp
1. Akamatsu (Centre)
2. Higashide (Second)
3. Bardon (Third)
4. Kurihara (First)
5. Hirose (Right)
6. Kokubo (Short)
7. Matsuyama (Left)
8. Aizawa (Catcher)
9. Ohtake (Pitcher)
Tigers
1. Hirano (Second)
2. Shibata (Centre)
3. Toritani (Short)
4. Arai (Third)
5. Brazell (First)
6. Murton (Right)
7. Kanemoto (Left)
8. Komiyama (Catcher)
9. Nohmi (Pitcher)
There was a sense that things were different with Carp's first innings. Komiyama calling and Nohmi pitching struck out the top of the Carp batting order. Tigers though they didn't score started positively. Hirano hit right and was bunted to second. Toritani hit left to set up runners on first and third but neither Arai not Brazell converted and the innings was scoreless. Carp still couldn't get on base in their second and another scoreless innings was the result. Instead of the wasteful calling of Fujii, Komiyama was economical and focused. Tigers second saw the Tigers catcher hit a two base but with the next batter Nohmi there was very little likelihood of a run and the innings was also scoreless. Finally with one out in Carp's third Aizawa singled right. He was bunted to second by Ohtake but Akamatsu flew out to left and no score resulted. Hirano hit a grounder to short which resulted in an error. Leading off Tigers third, Hirano tried to go too far though and was out. Another out followed and then Toritani walked but Arai flew out to right.
Carp's fourth was quiet with each batter collecting a ground out. Two outs started Tigers fourth and then Kanemoto singled. Komiyama also singled and Tigers had runners on first and second. Once again the next batter was Nohmi who struck out swinging again. Carp's fifth? Quiet of course - nothing seemed to phase the Nohmi/Komiyama combination. Hirano led off Tigers fifth with a single. Shibata grounded out to first which took Hirano to second but then Ohtake was able to get both Toritani and Arai out to end the innings. Despite scattering hits around Ohtake was also pitching very nicely and preventing the scoring shots. Carp's second and last hit came in their sixth. This surprisingly was a one out single to Ohtake and was just pure luck. Nohmi made sure that Ohtake stayed on first retiring the next two batters smoothly. Tigers sixth was also quiet - no runner reaching base.
Nohmi struck out Bardon looking and Kurihara swinging to start Carp's seventh and then induced a flyout from Hirose. It was all pretty easy and he was pitching really well. Tigers seventh was similar, none of the batters reaching base and the game was in a watching mode. Carp collected their first and only walk in their eighth. Matsuyama walking with one out. This was immediately extinguished with a double play from Aizawa. Finally, something cracked and Tigers broke open the game in the eighth. Shibata hit deep to right centre and tore round the bases to reach third. Toritani walked to set up runners on first and third with no outs and Tigers were in with a great chance. Carp rapidly switched pitchers and Kishimoto took over. He let go a wild pitch which moved Toritani out of the danger zone to second. However, Arai flew out for the first out. Carp changed pitchers again with Aoki facing Brazell. Brazell hit his first pitch to centre bringing home both runners 2-0 Tigers, runner on first. Murton then hit into a double play but Tigers had the game sown up. Of course Carp's ninth was pitched by Kyuji who was on form. He got Amaya (pinch hitter) to ground out to short first pitch. Then Maru (pinch hitter) struck out swinging. Finally, Higashide snatched at one and flew out to Toritani at short to end the game. Tigers victory.
A fine piece of pitching by Nohmi - he had thrown 98 pitches over eight innings for two hits and one walk. It had been a brilliant display and he fully deserved his victory. Nohmi now stands at 11-9. Kyuji had picked up his 39th save. Tigers had actually done well over this 13 game run with a 9-4 record. Seven games remain. However, the great news was the resignation of Mayumi which when it came was a relief. There is now a chance to recruit a new and able manager and to fully utilise the talent available.