Naturalized Citizens in NPB Today?

Kanemoto would be unlikely in the extreme. He is the current "iron man" of Japanese baseball and hasn't missed even an inning for a long time. Igawa is possible as he has had injury problems.

Yeah, I saw that after I posted. My apologies. Didn't Igawa play in the 2004 Olympics?

No, Igawa wasn't included in the 2004 Olympics side. This was made up of two players from each of the 12 teams and the Tigers sent Andoh and Fujimoto.

So does Igawa have Korean or Chinese ancestry - is that what you're saying? I didn't know that.

That's Kanemoto without doubt.

I can't understand why you think Igawa is Korean.

I didn't think about Igawa's ancestry at all, but if it was non-Japanese he would be the only one of the two examples which fitted BigManZam's suspicions. Kanemoto, whilst definitely having Korean ancestry, doesn't have injury problems. He keeps playing no matter what, and Oh, in response to the question, mentioned injury problems as the major factor in not selecting the player, not ancestry.

The obvious contradiction between Oh's ancestory not being in question for managing the team, while potential players like Kanemoto are sitting out for that reason (if he is) would be completely silly. Not that contradictions are not abound in national issues. So, Kanemoto has Japanese citizenship right? (Typically it's only a matter of formality for zainichi Koreans to switch to Japanese citizenship if they don't have a criminal record.)

Igawa isn't rumored to be Korean. He's rumored to be Vietnamese.

What a sad thread! Just because Japan is xenophobic, doesn't mean this board has to speculate about players' heritage.

Move on.

I don't think it's a sad thread. I've always been fascinated by naturalized players and how some of them have very different looking statistics. It makes me wonder if the difference is the character built up in youth from feeling like an outsider. It's definitely not physical.

I've always loved Kanemoto, and his career stats are some of the most solid you'll ever see. Seeing a man his age hit 40 homers in Japan is something you don't see everyday. That has everything to do with preparation and conditioning, which is basically just wanting it more than anyone else.

I was born in Tokyo and raised in the USA. If anything, I relate to the naturalized citizens in NPB past and present, because I was an outsider growing up here.

Hmmm, I have never seen such a rumor that he is Vietnamese, even on the Internet.

Anyway Kinjoh and Arai are selected, why only Kanemoto had to be excluded from the national team because of his ancestory?

Jim Allen didn't mention the two and tried to bring racism into baseball. I was suprised at his biased and seemingly ignorant article.

I am a bit surprised at the last two posters. Guest, whoever you are, there is nothing wrong with discussing players' heritage, even if it is not an issue in selecting the player. This is an open talk forum - anything related to Japanese baseball. Heritage of baseball stars is a topic worthy of discussion, particularly as it is very much a taboo subject in Japan.

Kappa - why do you persist in thinking that Kanemoto was the name Jim Allen mentioned? What little evidence that exists does not point to him. Even so, racism is still a big problem. It may not have played a part in the team selection, it may have. However, it exists in Japanese life in a very insidious form. Like many aspects of Japanese discrimination, it is not talked about and thus flourishes. I would not be surprised if it did rear its ugly head in baseball. Whilst I may not agree with everything Jim writes, I think here he did a great service.

- Guest, whoever you are, there is nothing wrong with discussing players' heritage.

Quite right. I just wonder whether Guest was trying to say that this thread is more open speculation than discussion. No evidence has been offered for any of the suggestions of overseas heritage on this site.

Jim Allen speaks more on the topic in his latest column (although I notice there's no link on the Daily Yomiuri site).

At least I have some evidence. For example, Arai was interviewed with Mindan (a pro-South Korean group) newspaper when he was drafted.

In the case of Kinjoh, his father, who was also a baseball player, graduated from a pro-North Korean school.

Hiyama openly admitted that he is a South Korean citizen in the newspaper.

Kanemoto is also reported as neutrized citizen in a Korean newspaper and it is common knowledge among baseball fans. "Kanemoto" or "Kaneda" are typical Japanese names from Korean use.

If silly perspectives like Jim Allen's are allowed, Hideki Matsui, Iwase (no. 1 closer last year), and Iguchi not playing under Oh's management would be racism against Oh.

Anything can be be related to racism.

How is Jim Allen's perspective silly?

One thing I think you should acknowledge is his depth of knowledge of the Japanese game and Japanese society. If he identifies racism as a possible issue that is because it is. Would I be right in thinking you are Japanese or of Japanese descent? I don't wish to cause offence but I ask this question because your defensiveness over this topic is very strong. Racism exists in each and every society whether acknowledged or unacknowledged and impacts all aspects of life in societies. Sport, despite its breaking down of barriers, is also subject to this disease.

To give some examples, racist chants by English soccer fans against black players, sumo wrestling's attitude towards foreign Yokuzuna champions, MLB administrators' racism against a Japanese woman who worked for them. The point is these examples come from all over the world and indicate that the problem is difficult to eradicate. Jim Allen is merely writing about a factor which exists. He doesn't identify the player and I would not expect him to, but he will have more information than we know about.

Racism and player's backgrounds is a taboo subject in Japan, and this is what makes it dangerous. Because no-one talks about it, it continues to exist and even flourish. Better that things are in the open where everything has to be justified, but without people like Jim Allen to shine a light on the topic, it will never be removed.

- No evidence has been offered for any of the suggestions of overseas heritage on this site.

Should read, "No evidence has been offered for any of the suggestions of overseas heritage in this thread."

Christopher, you tried to change the topic.

Jim Allen wrote that one player was not selected because of his ancestory. He thinks that it is a case of discrimination. But other players are selected. How do you explain this inconsistency?

- No evidence has been offered for any of the suggestions of overseas heritage on this site.

Please see here and here [Japanese.Chosun.com - in Japanese].

If you can read Japanese, I don't mind posting other evidence.

I know it is a taboo, after the Niigata Shinpo incident (newspaper in Niigata) or riots in Kobe, the media doesn't want to deal with Korean issues.

A Taiwanese selected the players and his selection was based on racism in Japanese society? A normal sports writer usually can't write this kind of article.

Some links! There we go. It would be great if other posters could do the same.

BTW, yesterday Allen-san said in his column, "The Hot Corner reported one unnamed Korean star was not chosen, and some readers chose to interpret this as an allegation of discrimination. [snip] The column did not suggest the player was omitted due to his nationality."

Re-reading Jim Allen's article again I don't think I did change the subject. In my interpretation Jim is touching on the problem of racism and the taboo of discussing it in a general sense. He mentioned a specific example merely to illustrate this point. He certainly didn't write that the player wasn't chosen because of his race but because of injury problems. However the very fact that no-one even asked why the player wasn't chosen was indicative of the taboo. Therefore the player's supposed ancestry did play a part in the discussion of the team in the press, at least even if it wasn't a factor in the decision to select him.

We have all assumed too much by allowing the mention of one example to obscure the real message of the article (and I have also been guilty of this). Looking at this article again I would say it is a brilliant piece of work and it is a pity that the follow up has not been put on the website.

Taboo... It is a difficult problem. 90% of Korean residents use Japanese names, and it is allowed officially. They can get a driving licence or bank accout using a Japanese name. But nationality is a different problem.

There is no way to know what nationality players have. Some players are open like Harimoto or Hiyama. But most players' nationalities are unknown. This vague rule complicated the situation.

I personally think the "Players by Nationality" section had better change to "Players by Birthplace."

Not all players with foreign ancestory are naturalized though, but citizenship's probably not a requirement to play on a team in this tournament. Do Piazza and Mulder have Italian and Dutch citizenship, respectively? (Though Mulder ended up not playing in this tournament.) And it looks like WBC Team Japan member Kinjoh may not be a naturalized Japanese citizen but still Korean, from how the Chosen Nippon article reads. Since this tournament isn't governed by the IBF, the rules for qualification seem pretty loose. Which would indicate that Oh, of all people, wasn't discriminating based on ancestory when selecting the team (he should be the last one doing that in any case).

- Igawa isn't rumored to be Korean. He's rumored to be Vietnamese.

I'm curious, where did this rumor come from?