Who Will Make the Playoffs? CL and PL?

- ... it is 2 teams from each league right?

In the Central League, only the 1st place team goes to the Nippon Series.

In the PL, 3 teams make the playoffs. The first place team gets a bye, and the second and third place teams play in the first round with the winner of that advancing on to the second round. Then that winner advancing onto the Nippon Series against the Central League champion.

Right now there is a lot of conflict in Japan about the current playoff system, or lack of one.

Wow, that's a really bad system. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Sounds like the CL needs to adopt the playoff system in my opinion.

Or that the Pacific League needs to abandon its playoff system. Basically the two leagues need to sit down and agree on a common approach. This doesn't look like it'll happen soon.

Is it just me, or does it just seem too painfully obvious to do this in both leagues: top 2 teams per league, 5 game series, no advantages for first place teams, winner advances, 7 game Nippon Series?

Somebody slap me if that doesn't make far too much sense.

- ... top 2 teams per league, 5 game series, no advantages for first place teams, winner advances, 7 game Nippon Series?

Yes, that would be the easiest way to do it. Of course the first place team could receive a home field advantage in whatever configuration they felt necessary (obviously someone would have to receive an advantage with an odd number of games).

Might very well be popular with the fans, too. But I suppose it's much too sensible for NPB.

Well, maybe home ground advantage for the 1st place team?

- Is it just me, or does it just seem too painfully obvious to do this in both leagues: top 2 teams per league, 5 game series, no advantages for first place teams, winner advances, 7 game Nippon Series?

This is my thinking, as well, although I'd make the league playoff series 7 games.

It's the strangest thing because the two league system in the States and Japan came from different places and they're completely heading in the opposite direction.

The two major leagues started out as separate entities competing against each other, but the major league office has gradually integrated them more, so much so that the only real difference between the AL and NL now is the DH.

Whereas in Japan, NPB decided to split up it's one league into two, just because the majors had two leagues and the World Series. But the two leagues in Japan are constantly squabbling and never can agree on things. The NPB commissioner is just a figurehead that yields power to the popular clubs.

So, what started as one organization, artificially split into two leagues, and ends up being more distinct and more in competition with each other, whereas the two major leagues that started off life competing against each other have now come under one organization of MLB. Strange.

Anyways, as long as the best of 7 series is considered the pinnacle of baseball championship, there have always been and there will always be a playoff system in baseball competition here or in the majors.

For a while both leagues in NPB didn't have a playoff system until the Pacific League re-introduced theirs in 2004.

I'd like to see the Carp and the Eagles for the championship this season. Great matchup!

As a supporter of the team that has been robbed of two straight pennants as a result of our playoff system, I would still like to see it abolished. Not that I'm looking to start another debate here, but that's my view on the whole thing.

I think no matter what the sport is, with a regular season as long as this, you need a playoff system with at least two teams from each, or maybe even 3 from each leauge playing off because there is no point in watching when, say, the Giants didn't slow down this year and were like 15 games up on everyone. If this just continued there would be no fun in watching any other team in the Central Leauge. When it gets down to about 2 months left in the season you need something there to keep faith that your team has a chance, and that's what playoffs are all about. There is no way it would make sense to have just the top team in each league. They really just need to set a playoff system of their choice and go at it to promote it and it will work. It always has throughout sports.

I agree with who ever put the first team gets a bye then 2 and 3 playoff because then that first team gets the advantage that they earned with a first place finish.

I wouldn't exactly say that every sport needs a playoff makeover. You can bring up the soccer leagues around the world, particularly in Europe. They've done just even when the gap between first and second places were gigantic.

Maybe I'm being a bit of a traditionalist here, but I don't see the point of letting teams that finished second in a six-team league have a chance at the championship.

Funny. I've always equated not having playoffs as being old fashioned.

I suppose we could also return to the dead-ball era, or change the strike zone back to the shoulders to the knees, or have the players wear heavy cotton uniforms again.

I don't have any problems with playoffs for a cup or special trophy award. Where the problems occur is when they are introduced to decide a league structure. The top team wins the league - it's as simple as that. Anything else is an absurdity.

Don't be a wise guy. My opinion is that the playoffs are a nuisance. That's all.

Anti-playoff "traditionalists" are sort of ironic because it's almost always been the World/Japan Series "playoffs" that have been crowning champions on both sides of the Pacific. Having a straight up league where each team plays each other equally to decide the national champion, a la non-American soccer leagues, should be exciting those traditionalists the most. But baseball is an American sport, and American pro sports have been all about the post season for the longest time. I like the idea of having a separate cup championship, international tournaments, and promotions and relegations. But we'll never see that in baseball.

- Don't be a wise guy. My opinion is that the playoffs are a nuisance. That's all.

Sure - I don't have to agree with you though. I just think a modern league without playoffs is as anachronistic as knickerbockers and top hats.

Himself, in reality European soccer does have playoffs and a post season - it is just that the playoffs are called the European Champions League and happen during the following season. The effect is the same. The leading teams from the constituent leagues provide a number of teams which play off for the Euro Champions League the following season.

Were it not for this, interest would plummet in Euro soccer leagues as the richest clubs sow up the league between them and the rest are left looking for "playoff" "post season" Champions League positions. All called differently, but all achieve the same result. The NPB CL is among the few leagues worldwide without a de facto play off system.

The European Champions League isn't a playoff system. It's a trophy competition which happens to be based on the previous season. European leagues are not unified like the MLB and so the prize is not relevant to the sport in the same way the American championship or Japan Series are.

- The European Champions League isn't a playoff system. It's a trophy competition which happens to be based on the previous season.

Dunno, that does sound an awful lot like a playoff system. I never thought of the Champions League like that. Very interesting.

This isn't soccer, it's baseball. So you can't even compare.

I think they need to meet somewhere in the middle. 2 teams from each division play a 7 game series. 3 teams is too many, and you need to have some kind of playoff system to have more interest at the end of the season. The Central League is really missing the boat. Could you imagine the interest of a Giants vs. Tigers semifinal?

Also, those of you crying about the Softhawks, get over it! If they can't win in the playoffs they are a bunch of chokers. It's one thing to win in the regular seaosn, but it's a different animal in the playoffs.

The Central League did suggest something along those lines (not exactly the same) which was rejected by the Pacific League.

If you're going to attempt to bash a team, at least get the name of the team in question correct. He's also a big enough man to leave his name anonymous, as well. What class!

I remember the last time this came up on the board. Those who haven't read the original discussion should definately have a look at the old thread. As you will see, it's a complicated and often controversial topic to say the least.

I still think we need playoffs in both the CL and PL, and that both systems need to be the same for both leagues.

The idea I would now like to see is very simple:

• The first place teams in each league are crowned the champions of their respective league.
• They would then play the second place team of the other league in a best of 7 series.
• The winner of both games would meet to decide the Japan Series.

This way the winner of the Leagues will be crowned champions (to prevent further Hawks-like situations as seen in the last few years). Also, as it is just the top two teams from each league, then it should rule out teams with a weak/losing record making the playoffs (a la Seibu 2005).

The more I think about this idea the more I like it. The CL and PL champions get to try and prove themselves against the other league's supposedly "lesser" teams, and if they make it to the Japan Series, they would get the chance to do a "double" of both league and Japan Series titles.

So in essence, the current league system remains untouched, and the Japan Series becomes the equivilent of a "cup" competition (i.e. an added bonus at the end of the season).

Don't know what anyone else thinks of this idea.

This is exactly what the Central League proposed and what the Pacific League rejected. It's a nice idea and has a certain elegance about it, but I rather think that the Pacific League is baulking at admitting that its playoff scheme is less than perfect.

- It seems like a perfect solution to me.

But as you say, getting the leagues to agree to the other's idea is another matter altogether, so who knows what crackpot scheme we'll end up with?

That does sound like the perfect solution with the only downside being the possibility of an intra-league Japan Series. But I'd take that over the current system.

Sorry to be the fly in the ointment, but I think it's a terrible idea. You've got to have one ultimate winner, otherwise it becomes just like soccer, with all the different tournaments and various winners. Treating the Nippon Series as a "bonus" will simply not do. The final series of the year must be the ultimate prize - otherwise there's the danger that it'll turn into one big yawn.

I can imagine the situation: The Tigers come first in the Central League and are regarded as the league champions. Then they lose to the Giants in the playoffs, who then go on to the Nippon Series but are defeated by the Hawks. Both CL teams hold victory parades through their respective cities, with both groups of fans claiming theirs to be the superior team. What a ridiculous situation. (I know the current setup is fairly wacky too, but this would be a backward step in my view.)

I'd fight tooth and nail to prevent such a system from ever coming to pass.

Yakulto's proposal is to have crossover semi-finals before the Japan Series. So that would be CL1 vs. PL2 and PL1 vs. CL2. In your case, if CL1 (Tigers) lose in the semi-finals and CL2 (Giants) win the semi-finals and makes it to the Japan Series, I reckon the CL champion is still the Tigers because the Giants didn't defeat them in the post-season.

The mixed league semi-finals are what makes it such a good idea.

Example:

The Tigers win the CL, but then get knocked out of the playoffs by PL2. The Giants who were CL2, beat the PL1 and then advance to the final where they beat PL2 to win the Japan Series. Now the Tigers can still lay claim to being the CL's top team as they bettered the Giants over the 140+ game season, and as SL says, as they were not beaten by the Giants in the playoffs then they still have bragging rights.

As I said, I view it as an end of season bonus which offers a chance for the CL and PL champions to cement their dominance by winning the League and Japan Series "double," while at the same time allowing the PL2 and CL2 to cause an upset - which as we all know, makes for compulsive viewing and entertainment. And if such an upset should occur, nothing is really taken away from the CL and PL champions as they still go down in the record books as League Champions.

It would also help build on the healthy rivalry between the two leagues that has come about since regular season inter-league play came into force.

No matter what, they need a playoff system. I mean, it really doesn't matter what you do in the regular season if you can't put it together in the playoffs, and it should take away from your regular season if you can't win in the playoffs. I mean, look at the Mariners in America. They set a record for wins in a season with 116 and then loose in the first round. I mean, I'm a big Mariners fan, and they killed everyone in the regular season, but couldn't do anything in the playoffs. So they are not any kind of champion to me.

They just need some sort of way to make the playoffs the same. Just a basic system of 2 teams from each league. They playoff, then the two winners are in the Japan Series, and the winner is Japan's best team. I mean, it's the obvious thing to do. It's what every pro sport does that I've ever watched, with the exeptions of tennis and golf, which are ruled on a whole year's worth of work, and no one really gets crowned the champion at the end of the year, just finish with a number one ranking.

I see where you're coming from, but I think the opponents of such a system would say that there are just too few teams in Japan to have the league mean nothing. In American sports the playoffs are everything, but in European sports (particularly soccer) the championship is decided on league placement alone.

The thing people object to is the situation that the Hawks have found themselves in the last couple of years. They were the best team over the marathon that is the regular season, and yet in the end this counted for nothing as they were beaten in the playoffs.

It's just two ways of looking at the same thing, and I can see both sides of the argument (if you read through that old playoff discussion you'll see that).

Hawks have been doing a very good Athletics impression so far. There might be some things that makes a team stronger in the long grind of the regular season, instead of the short series, or vice versa. Or maybe the Hawks and the A's have just had bad luck in the post season. Afterall, the sample size is so small in the post season that they're heavily affected by luck.

If there is such a thing as being good at playing a short series, then it makes sense to send the playoff winner to the Japan Series like the PL has been doing. This way the strongest team in the league for playing a short series is represented in the finals, instead of a team that might have finished higher in the standings but lacks the skills/integrity/whatever required to win a best of 7.

The play-off systen is now used quite regularly in European soccer, but not to decide the champions of a particular league or division. For example, in England the "championship" (the league below the "premiership") promotion spots are decided by a play-off. The 1st and 2nd teams in the league are promoted automatically. The 3rd promotion spot is 3rd vs. 6th and 4th vs. 5th with the winners meeting to decide the final promotion spot. I think this certainly works in this situation as the winner of the league is still the winner, but it keeps alive the competition for other teams in the league (in England the chanpionship has 24 teams).

As regards baseball, I do not think that it is fair to deny the winner of either the CL or PL the chance to match their worth against their respective counterparts in the Japan Series. If you are not good enough to be top of the league after 140 odd games of the regular season, then you do not deserve to be crowned champions or represent your particular league in the Japan Series. Cream always rises to the top.