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What was Hoshino hoping to achieve?

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What was Hoshino hoping to achieve?
Did anyone see the Tigers vs. Giants game last night (April 11)? You saw how the Tigers were leading 7-1 as the Giants went in to bat in the bottom of the 9th, right? And you saw Lou Pote load the bases and give up 2 runs, right [Yoshino then relieved Pote]? So, with the score at 7-4 with Yoshino's two outs in the bottom of the 9th, what, then, do you think Hoshino-kantoku hoped to achieve by replacing pitcher Yoshino with Fujikawa?

(For those of you who didn't see the game, the Giants ended up levelling the score, taking the game into extra innings. Both teams scored in the 12th, and the game ended 8-8.)

The irony of it for me is, last year, Hoshin-kantoku sometimes didn't seem to notice that his pitchers needed relieving, and last night it looked like he was just sending relievers out there willy nilly.
Comments
Re: What was Hoshino hoping to achieve?
[ Author: Sara B | Posted: Apr 26, 2003 10:50 PM | HT Fan ]

I find myself always wondering what Hoshino is thinking -- mostly because he does things with pitchers and their arms that even I, a plain old fan, am too smart to do. When these moves are not wise in the baseball sense, I figure they have something to do with testing the players' inner zen, or willingness to sacrifice for the team, or some other wa-like character trait. Who knows? It just makes me despair that the Tigers will never, never, never win a title (even if they don't surrender) as long as No. 77 is calling the shots. Aaaargh!
Re: What was Hoshino hoping to achieve?
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Apr 27, 2003 12:14 AM | YBS Fan ]

My observations about pitcher use. Not just with Hoshino-kantoku, but with most of the managers in Pro Yakyu.

When a pitcher has a shutout going, in general, the manager will leave him in there until he gives up a run. Even in a one run ball game where he's exceeded 130 pitches and the number of walks has been increasing the last couple of innings. Not all managers do this. Gondoh-kantoku (managed Yokohama several years ago) probably set a new record for relay shutouts by a team. Of course, he had a bull-pen he could rely on, with Sasaki to close.

But it's not really only the manager that keeps this kind of thing going. Many pitchers want to throw the complete game and get upset if they're pulled - especially with a shutout going. It's as though 7 innings isn't considered a quality start in their book.

And the front office is equally bad in pushing for complete games. The main complaint among managers is their inability to run a game as they want due to behind the scenes interference by the front office.

The Japanese press likes to point out the "unwritten rules" in MLB, such as a team isn't supposed to steal bases with a huge lead. Likewise, there appears to be an unwritten rule in NPB that states that pitchers must be allowed to stay in the game until they start giving up runs. Any manager who doesn't abide by that rule will be in trouble with the pitchers and the front office.

In Hoshino-kantoku's case, he was a pitcher. So one would think that he'd be more concerned with the needs of pitchers. But he wasn't the kind of pitcher to like being sent to the dugout. As a manager, he expects the same from his pitchers. The only manager that comes to mind that is worst is former Lions' manager Higashio-kantoku, who coincidently, ranks 10th for career complete games.

The other major factor that plays into leaving pitchers in too long is middle relief. Hoshino is very willing to give the ball to Williams to close, but seems reluctant to pass it on to anyone else in the 7th or 8th. He needs to decide on a reliable setter-upper and start using him before all his starters are burnt out.
Re: What was Hoshino hoping to achieve?
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: Apr 28, 2003 9:24 AM | HT Fan ]

> The other major factor [...] is middle relief. [...] Hoshino [...] needs to decide on a reliable setter-upper and start using him before all his starters are burnt out.

I'd say he needs to get one first.

At the moment he has Ando, Fujikawa, Yoshino, and Kanazawa. Apart from Yoshino who suddenly started pitching really well when he changed to a side-arm action in the middle of last season(!), Ando and Fujikawa are failed starters, and Kanazawa is the "senior" pitcher, with 4 (count 'em, four) seasons under his belt.

That's why we need Lou Pote so much.
Changing Pitchers
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Apr 28, 2003 10:05 PM | YBS Fan ]

As though to emphisize my point about managers being critisized for taking pitchers out of games, Yamashita-kantoku (Yokohama) took Saitoh out of last night's (April 27) game with two down and two runners on in the 8th inning while the BayStars still led 3-0. Saitoh's pitch count was at 127 pitches for the night, making it a reasonable choice to me.

However, the Giants went on to score 10 runs that inning, prompting Yamamoto-kantoku to blame himself for making such a mistake as to change pitchers there. He made the right move, change the pitcher before his arm falls off, but got seriously burned by it. How likely is it now that he changes a pitcher who's got a shutout going after 150 pitches? (Like Hoshino-kantoku, he's got no one reliable to turn to in the bull-pen.)

And speaking of 150 pitches, Leon Lee got his first managerial win this evening (April 28) against the Buffaloes at Green Yahoo Stadium. (Nice job with the grass in the infield. First time I've seen it.) He had Koo throw 151 pitches over 7 innings. Hagiwara threw the last two for a combined 6-0 shutout. Koo didn't think that 151 pitches was a big deal in his hero interview. Nonetheless, Lee has shown that he can manage his pitcher like any Japanese manager.
Give the Devil his Due
[ Author: Guest: Gary Garland | Posted: May 2, 2003 1:29 PM ]

While I've taken up a lot of bandwidth grousing about what a goon Senichi Hoshino is, you have to give the devil his due. He turned a team that was totally lost under Katsuya Nomura and turned it into a serious contender in just a little over a season. This team now has its eye on the ball and he has gotten some fine early performances out of the normally slow starting Tomoaki Kanemoto and shortstop Atsushi Fujimoto, who looked like he was soon destined for civilian life last season.

As for his handling of pitchers, well, that comes with the territory in Japan, unfortunately. Hoshino is an old school guy who thinks players should be able to win through sheer force of will no matter how much they've thrown. This is not a good idea, as pitchers who don't start losing movement on their pitches after running 110-120 pitches up to the plate are rather rare, and that is before you even get to the wear and tear question.

I don't have any quibble with Yamashita removing Saito. When you don't have a bullpen, what are you going to do when they blow it? Saito has a long injury history and he has to be babied along, so Yamashita is stuck.

Getting back to Hanshin, Pote has been a disappointment so far. Yoshino did a nice job last season and hopefully he can continue to develop. Kanazawa is a mediocrity. Ando is kind of an up and down guy. If Pote can become more consistent so that Hoshino can start thinking about throwing his starters seven innings, then I think he should.

Now if someone could just give Shinobu Fukuhara some guts and focus, then that would boost the Tigers' bullpen even more. No doubt, that pen is a big improvement over the mess it was last season, but it still has some ways to go.
Re: Give the Devil his Due
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: May 16, 2003 10:11 AM | HT Fan ]

- Now if someone could just give Shinobu Fukuhara some guts and focus, then that would boost the Tigers' bullpen even more.

Fukuhara update from SanSpo:

Shinobu Fukuhara is scheduled to begin pitching for batting practice at the end of this week as he recovers from torn cartilege in his right shoulder.

"I was supposed to start today (May 15) but it rained and the coach cancelled it" said Fukuhara, who ended up throwing 90 pitches in the bullpen. One farm pitching coach said, "If all goes well, Fukuhara may be able to take the mound mid-June."

That's more like it
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: Apr 30, 2003 9:12 PM | HT Fan ]

Igawa pitches two shaky innings against the Giants, but recovers, and Hanshin takes the lead. Igawa had just about 150 pitches in 8 innings. Last year Hoshino would have made him complete the game, whether he was tiring or not. Today he sent Williams out for the 9th: Williams retired 3 and we won. That's more like it.

Incidentally, it was great to see Williams strike Kiyohara out two nights in a row!
Re: That's more like it
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 1, 2003 3:18 PM | HT Fan ]

- Incidentally, it was great to see Williams strike Kiyohara out two nights in a row!

Were you at the game on Tuesday? Because the Williams' strikeout of Kiyohara wasn't shown live on TV - the telecast ended at 9:24 sharp, with one out in the bottom of the 9th. So I didn't actually get to see the strikeout. It wasn't on any of the cable channels either.

This sort of thing really BUGS me!! Where I'm from, there'd be a riot if a game like this were cut short.
Re: That's more like it
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: May 1, 2003 5:28 PM | HT Fan ]

- Were you at the game on Tuesday?

Unfortunately no, but all the stations showed it (and Williams roaring and punching the air like mad) on the news. I've got tickets for lotsa' games this month tho'.

[digression]
I almost bought one of those new outfield season tickets for 90,000 yen apiece, but you have to go to 53 games to break even.
[/digression]

- [...] The telecast ended at 9:24 sharp, with one out in the bottom of the 9th. This sort of thing really BUGS me!! Where I'm from, there'd be a riot if a game like this were cut short.

Yeah, it's pretty annoying, but I think I'm used to it, 'cos all the channels except Sun TV do it. I tell ya what really makes me steam though, is #*&$!+# Asahi TV's practice of going to ads at the end of an inning, then returning just as the players are coming out for the next inning, and then going back to ads!

I cannot count the number of times they've returned to coverage, only for the first images to be the crowd going bananas and a batter rounding the bases. Grrrrrrr!
Tickets
[ Author: Guest: nth | Posted: May 3, 2003 4:49 PM ]

Dear torakichi,

Could you tell me where I can buy a ticket to the Hanshin-Yakult game next Monday?

Thanks.
Re: Tickets
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: May 5, 2003 4:55 PM | HT Fan ]

Hi there, and sorry to be too late (I assume you meant today's game which has just finished).

In general, though, regarding tickets for Hanshin's home games, the outlets that spring to mind at the moment are: Koshien stadium, Hanshin Play Guide (in Umeda near the smaller entrance to Hanshin Railway), Nankai Travel on the 2nd floor of Namba station, or any Ticket Pia outlet (or their website).

For popular games (vs. Yomiuri, on public holidays, etc.), you should be prepared to either (a) buy the tickets on the morning of the day they go on sale, or (b) pay through the nose by auction.
Re: That's more like it
[ Author: Guest | Posted: May 3, 2003 11:07 PM ]

...same with Yomiuri's channel....Pi$$es the h*** out of me...
Re: That's more like it
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: May 1, 2003 9:29 PM | HT Fan ]

-- Incidentally, it was great to see Williams strike Kiyohara out two nights in a row!

Yeah! Three in a row!!
Re: That's more like it
[ Author: Guest | Posted: May 2, 2003 10:17 PM ]

Quick note: My son plays for the Tigers, I can't say enough great things about the Tiger fans. Trey's father and I thank each of you fans for the love you show to our son. We are now in Japan, but our stay is over Monday, we must return to Texas, U.S.A. I have made 3 trips to Japan in the last 12 months. Your country is unbeliveable, and my son loves it here. You Tiger fans have made Japan his baseball home. Go Tigers!

Mrs. M.
Unbelievable
[ Author: Sara B | Posted: May 2, 2003 8:37 PM | HT Fan ]

Can I believe my eyes? Did the Tigers just sweep the Giants at Koshien? Sacre Dieu!!! The entire Kansai region of Japan must be erupting in riotous celebration. Obviously someone has finally located Colonel Sanders at the bottom of the Doutonburi River.
Re: Unbelievable
[ Author: 1908 | Posted: May 3, 2003 1:29 AM | HT Fan ]

- Obviously someone has finally located Colonel Sanders at the bottom of the Doutonburi River.

I wouldn't go that far. There's still plenty of time for the Tigers to choke during the shi no roado.
Re: Unbelievable
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 6, 2003 4:27 PM | HT Fan ]

- Can I believe my eyes? Did the Tigers just sweep the Giants at Koshien? Sacre Dieu!!! The entire Kansai region of Japan must be erupting in riotous celebration. Obviously someone has finally located Colonel Sanders at the bottom of the Doutonburi River.

It's actually a little more subdued than last year. The fans have been disappointed so often that I think they're reserving judgment this year until at least the All Star break. If the team stays healthy (unlike last year) they've got to be in contention though.
Re: Unbelievable
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: May 7, 2003 9:23 AM | HT Fan ]

Good call. This time last year, some shopping arcade in Amagasaki had posted a "magic" countdown board - the number of games needed to win the pennant!
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