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Tigers Woes

Discussion in the Open Talk forum
Tigers Woes
Any thoughts on the Tigers' problems? They were doing quite reasonably until this six game losing streak to mediocre opposition. Pitchers seemingly unable to find the strike zone and batters unwilling to hit. Only Yano, Kano, and Lin seem to be showing any real application. What can be done?
Comments
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: May 5, 2007 6:56 PM | HT Fan ]

At seven consecutive losses now, I suggest match-fixing. With a rich new corporate owner, Hanshin should be flush with cash. Use that to buy a win.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Guest: JR | Posted: May 5, 2007 7:27 PM ]

One thing they shouldn't do: rely on Hiyama to give them the big hit to break out of the slump. Sure, their bench is a bit thin for bats, but I cringed when they put him in today after finally getting some momentum. I turned my head for a moment and that's all it took for him to ground back to the pitcher for an inning-ending double play.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Sara B | Posted: May 5, 2007 9:20 PM | HT Fan ]

Having not seen my beloved tora-boys yet this year, I am wondering what is going on with their pitching. Can someone give a summary of how the staff has been doing? Thanks.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 5, 2007 10:33 PM | HT Fan ]

- One thing they shouldn't do: rely on Hiyama to give them the big hit to break out of the slump.

I agree, but I suppose that comes from putting both Lin and Kano in the starting lineup - there's nobody on the bench to pinch hit for you.

What to do? Don't panic is the first thing. It's a long season and they're still only 6.5 back; 3.5 out of third place, which might well be the realistic target this year.

I noticed Okada juggled the lineup a little: Imaoka batted first, Vogelsong batted 8th; Lin and Kano got a chance; Akahoshi was out. Kano and Lin were unlucky not to get a handful of hits. The power guys, especially Kanemoto, aren't doing their job, and it's hard to know who to replace them with. The tragedy today was that the pitching was strong, and without that ridiculous at-bat from Hiyama, they probably would have beaten Sasaoka.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Guest: JR | Posted: May 6, 2007 12:02 AM ]

Adding to the woes, anyone know how long Akahoshi is out? It looked pretty serious, but I haven't heard anything. I had disagreed with Akahoshi not leading off, but looks like more juggling will be necessary. Curious to see whether Imaoka was a one-time experiment.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 6, 2007 10:49 AM | HAN Fan ]

Imaoka batted leadoff under Hoshino in 2003, so it will be interesting to see how he goes.

I see two problems:
  1. Pitching: No one is getting past five innings at the moment. There are an inordinate number of pitches being used in the early stages.
  2. Batting: Apart from Lin (and Kano), none of the batters are really performing. We aren't seeing home runs or many two base hits. Yano has still got to get off the mark as have Hamanaka and Sekimoto. Most seem to be hitting for singles and then relying on others to get them home.
Whilst Mijow is right that it's still in the early stages, a slump of this proportions against such mediocre opposition does not bode well for future struggles against the better sides.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: May 6, 2007 11:51 AM | YBS Fan ]

- ... against such mediocre opposition ...

That's the second time you've referred to Miura's shutout of the Tigers as "mediocre opposition." True, Miura allowed the Tigers to strand the bases loaded twice in that game (2nd and 9th innings). But 2-hitting the Tigers through 8 innings and pitching out of those two bases loaded jams was anything but mediocre.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 6, 2007 1:12 PM | HT Fan ]

Here are edited summaries of the seven "mediocre" performances by opposing pitchers in the Tigers' last seven losses (with apologies to Kyodo):

April 28: Carp 8, Tigers 4 - Jared Fernandez (1-1) pitched out of the bullpen, allowing three superb hits in four scoreless, mediocre innings.

April 29: Carp 5, Tigers 1 - Veteran, but mediocre, Hiroshima right-hander Shinji Sasaoka (1-2) allowed eight awesome hits over five pedestrian innings, but did not give up any runs.

April 30: Carp 7, Tigers 4 - Hiroki Kuroda (3-2) allowed four magnificent runs while scattering eight hits in eight uninspired innings and Katsuhiro Nagakawa pitched a perfect, mediocre ninth for his seventh save.

May 2: BayStars 4, Tigers 0 - Daisuke (Mediocre) Miura (2-3) struck out 10 and allowed five hits, all singles, with four walks in a passable 140-pitch outing.

May 3: BayStars 7, Tigers 6 - Normally mediocre closer Marc Kroon threw a perfect ninth, to earn his eighth save.

May 4: Carp 11, Tigers 5 - Knuckleballer Jared Fernandez (2-1) again got the win after allowing four remarkable runs and five hits in 5 and 2/3 run-of-the-mill innings.

May 5: Carp 2, Tigers 0 - Sasaoka (2-2) allowed five hits and a walk in another mediocre seven-inning performance against the Tigers before Tomohiro Umetsu worked the eighth and Katsuhiro Nagakawa finished for his ninth lucky save.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 6, 2007 3:41 PM | HAN Fan ]

One cannot describe the BayStars or the Carp as top level sides. One can apply that description to the Giants or the Dragons. The BayStars have had a good run, but have peaked and are on their way back down. The Carp have not advanced on last year.

With regard to Sasaoka (two victories against the Tigers only), any great pitching he had has long gone and the Tigers had so many runners on base which they wasted in the first game. Eight hits from Sasaoka including a bases loaded no out situation and they scored nothing. In fact in the whole game they scored one run on thirteen hits. This is not a result of the Carp's efforts but the Tigers failures.

Miura - three losses, two victories so far (guess who the two victories are against). He, though, has always had a good record against the Tigers. However, two hits and two bases loaded situations - where did the runners on base come from? Walks - not exactly good pitching. In the next game Kroon was not the starting pitcher, Yoshimi was, and he was poor - nearly as bad as Yan. Even so, the Tigers managed to waste so many scoring opportunities it was painful to watch. When they finally began to score it was as much due to the BayStars imploding as to their own efforts.

Kuroda's outing was mediocre. He is not back to full form yet, he said so himself. And Fernandez is down in ni-gun now (today's Yomiuri Shimbun).

Trying to elevate the quality of the opposition is, in fact, trying to escape the facts. The Tigers have played abysmally with a lack of commitment and application. Whilst this does not exclude good performances from individual BayStars or Carp players, overall we are looking at B-class teams. Unfortunately, the Tigers seem determined to join them. Both pitching and batting have failed miserably. Runners are not being driven in by batters and there are too many soft pitches to opposition batters with runners on base. The whole series at Hiroshima revolved around this.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 7, 2007 1:47 AM | HT Fan ]

Right, here we go again. Christopher, why do you always have to attribute Hanshin losses to "lack of commitment and application." Please extend some credit to the opposition for a change.

- One cannot describe the BayStars or the Carp as top level sides.

We've had this conversation before. This is sheer arrogance. All 12 pro teams regularly win games against one another. Even lowly Rakuten won 47 of their games last year. You belittle the BayStars in the same way others used to do it to the Tigers. It wasn't so long ago that the Tigers had a lock on the CL cellar. Why do you think the BayStars deserve to be there now? And oh yes, they beat Chunichi today to remain in clear second. On the way down are they?

- With regard to Sasaoka ... any great pitching he had has long gone ...

And how would you know? My goodness, now you're a pitching expert giving us scouting reports. The thing about veteran pitchers is that they have the ability once in a while to produce something extra at the right time. Maybe this was one of those occasions. How would you know?

OK, you might have a point about some of the others, but the fact remains that, although the Tigers have indeed appeared to play abysmally, there's a fine line between success and failure in baseball - a game of inches. One or two lucky breaks and the Tigers might have won some of those games. What about the BayStars' superb fielding? Surely that had an impact. And with walks it takes two to tango, you know. Batters often have to be patient and have a good eye to eke out a BB.

- ...too many soft pitches to opposition batters with runners on base.

Mmm, want to be more specific? Is the problem pitch selection? Speed? Location? (What's softness)? Good clutch hitting by the opposing batters? (Oh no, couldn't possibly be that.)

Look, Christopher, with all due respect, you know a lot about baseball for an Englishman. But please don't think you know everything. The Tigers are in a slump, for sure, but it's not necessarily all their fault. There have been some fine performances from the other teams as well. As far as I'm concerned all teams have enough quality players to beat any other team on a given day. They're all pros, and the A class/B class divide is probably a lot closer than you think.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 7, 2007 9:55 AM | HAN Fan ]

We disagree on this. There are teams which have better players and resources. Their owners are prepared to put in more money for the best players. The Tigers have become one of these teams. There are teams whose owners do not put in the money or resources - the Carp and BayStars both fall into the latter category. This is why there is a noticeable A/B class divide, but other factors do come into play. And as Michael has noted in another thread, Ohya becoming kantoku has made an impact on the BayStars' performance. But with their limited resources, I do not believe it will be sustained.

This is the essential difference between the top level and lower level sides. The lower level sides may be able to produce impressive bursts, but cannot sustain the efforts over a long period. Good sides may also go into a slump because of their own problems. This is just the reality - not arrogance as you choose to claim. You mention the BayStar's victory without mentioning that it was 2-1 to the Dragons in the series.

Now if you take a look at the Tigers' batters' figures, you find disturbing figures, particularly from 3, 4, 5, and 6 (Hamanaka). These guys are not producing, and given the talent they possess, we cannot attribute it to opposing pitchers. For example, Hiroshima only has a winning record against the Tigers and it is currently 6-2 (no one else, and that even includes the slumping Swallows). If their pitchers were as good as you say, then they would have winning records against other teams. They don't, so there must be another factor involved.

If you hammer out 8 hits against a pitcher in five innings (Sasaoka - first game), you should score one or two. One certainly can't say the pitcher is pitching superbly. Remember that Sasaoka is currently 2-2 - guess who the wins are against. Also remember that this is a seven game losing streak (with the unhappy possibility that if they had played the other rain affected 2 games they probably would have lost those as well).

Why is it that no Tigers pitcher is going more than 5 innings? If the talent level between pitchers is what you claim (similar), then surely they would be able to pitch more than that. Why is it that one of the most talented batting line-ups in Japanese baseball is suddenly under-performing? Why has Kanemoto stopped hitting after his superb start? Why did Hamanaka not even start? These are the questions you should be asking - always look for the solution to a problem close to home before looking at the external factors. This is not a matter of the opposition performing well but the Tigers performing poorly. This is even the opinion of Hoshino - we are talking about a malaise in Tigers, not a general improvement in quality of other teams.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 7, 2007 11:49 AM | HT Fan ]

Of course we disagree. So what else is new?

Look, I'm not saying the Tigers are playing well; obviously they're not. They're in a slump, as are the Dragons, as were the New York Yankees. Hiroshima are presently on a roll. The BayStars' run hasn't quite ended yet. These runs come and go - that's just part of baseball.

But you've got to acknowledge, surely, that there's a possibility, however slight, that the opposition has had something to do with the Tigers' present funk. Just admit the possibility, Christopher, and I'll be satisfied. Money and resources don't ensure success, and it is the height of arrogance to suggest that if you throw enough money and resources at at team they'll be expected to play well all the time. And if they don't, you immediately assume they're suffering from some internal malaise, some mysterious affliction that apparently doesn't affect any other team in NPB. I know you place a lot of weight on what Hoshino says, but he's not always right.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 7, 2007 6:31 PM | HAN Fan ]

It might be that we can attribute this situation to a temporary slump, but even in 2004 they did not lose seven in a row. For this we need to go back to 2002. Remember the Dragons stopped their run of losses at 5 and won the next three games.

The fact is that the batting is not performing. Currently Sheets (3-29), Kanemoto (5-27), and Imaoka (3-27) are dead weight. Toritani isn't much better either. Runs are not being knocked in and the situation isn't improving.

With pitchers distributing runs as if it was a free give away time (why is Nohmi back in the bullpen? and Egusa and Kojima down in ni-gun?) it is very easy for the opposition. No, in this case there is some problem with the team, and Hoshino is dead on the ball.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 7, 2007 10:56 PM | HT Fan ]

- It might be that we can attribute this situation to a temporary slump...

Which is what I am doing. Losing seven in a row is nothing, and it's nonsense to say, "Oh well, they didn't do it in 2004" which somehow proves ipso facto that they're in worse shape than the 2004 team. Or that they're somehow on par with the 2002 team on the basis of this one number.

Of course they're under-performing; of course they should be doing better; of course they need to try different things. But you're still not admitting that the opposition just might have even a tincy wincy part to play in all of this.

Anyway, this conversation is getting a little tiresome, and I've got better things to do than beat my head against a brick wall. So that's it from me.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Guest: Cheese | Posted: May 8, 2007 12:17 AM ]

I leave the country for a week and what do I come back to? What a mess!

I'd like to enter into the debate. Sure I've missed the last week of games, but from the stats and what I've read on the net and from games I've seen earlier, Hanshin's rotation is falling apart and the power numbers (or lack thereof) are way down on what you'd expect.

Hanshin entered the season without an ace, a guy you could give the ball and be confident of him getting it done. Some might argue Fukuhara on his day is that guy, but nobody designated as a starter is lights out.

Yan is overweight and poorly conditioned. Shimo has lost his velocity. At this point in his career he's the kind of guy who needs to paint the corners, so if his control is off, he's going to struggle. Nohmi's gone back into the bullpen? I've seen enough to indicate he doesn't have what it takes to play in the big leagues. He's got 2 pitches, a fastball and a slider. He's lost velocity on his fastball and he's not fooling any batters. He's done as far I'm concerned.

The lack of extra base hits seems to be really hurting the team. You can't count on stringing a few singles together for runs. Slugging numbers are way down. Toritani is striking out a lot, but has an OBP up around .400, so he can justify leading off. Still, I'd rather see a fit Akahoshi lead off and see Toritani in the number 2 hole.

Sheets is a mystery. Batting in front of Kanemoto he should see a lot of pitches over the plate. Like I said, I haven't seen a game for a week, but how's he swinging the bat? Trying too hard?

Considering the lack of extra base hits, its interesting to see Kano and Lin lead the team in slugging percentages. I'd like to see them get more game time, especially Kano, but given the conservative nature of the Japanese game, I won't hold my breath.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 7, 2007 11:09 PM | HT Fan ]

To clarify what I just said about losing seven consecutive games being nothing, if a team had two four-game losing streaks punctuated by a win or two, would that be any better? No, because they've lost eight games in a similar space of time. The streak itself is meaningless in the broad scheme of things, because a team can and often does bounce back.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 8, 2007 11:01 AM | HAN Fan ]

Maybe if we look at it another way. Normal series go 2-1 and sweeps, whilst not uncommon, are unusual. So two four game losing streaks would not be as serious because it would indicate that the team was still able to play even though it may have been outplayed by the opposition or had bad luck. Even the Carp or BayStars at their worst do not get swept that often.

The problem with a prolonged run of losses is that it indicates that the team isn't even able to make this level. In fact, the only reason it is seven games and not nine is because two games were rained out. The Tigers haven't played at all, and the fact that they are not picking up the odd wins indicates that there is something wrong with the team, not that the opposition is suddenly excellent.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Guest: Pat | Posted: May 8, 2007 2:43 PM ]

- ... the only reason it is seven games and not nine is because two games were rained out.

Is that even logical? Who's to say the Tigers wouldn't have won those two rain outs if they'd been played? After all, May 3 was a one-run game, and they almost got to Sasaoka on May 5. A lucky break or two and things can change very quickly.

I remember in both 2003 and 2005 Hanshin had a couple of losing streaks, with some close (some would say lucky) wins that could have gone either way.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 8, 2007 4:22 PM | HAN Fan ]

Good points. However, the May 3rd one run loss was due to the BayStars almost losing it, not the Tigers suddenly becoming good. An Ishii error let the Tigers back in there. Watching the game the Tigers didn't give the impression that they could take the lead and so it went. There aren't enough batters performing frequently enough for this kind of lucky break to be exploited. The same with the games against Sasaoka (remember they wasted a bases loaded no outs situation with him).

It's only my opinion, but the way they were playing they could not have won the two rained out games because the batters were not hitting. With only Lin and Kano able to hit for extra bases at the moment, there are not enough power hits to exploit the opportunities. As I mentioned above, this is their worst losing streak since 2002. I am just hoping that something has changed for tonight's game against the Giants.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Guest: Pat | Posted: May 8, 2007 4:04 PM ]

- ... the fact that they are not picking up the odd wins indicates that there is something wrong with the team ...

And just one other thing before I forget: Before this seven-game slump, the Tigers were 6-4 in the previous 10 games, which is about right according to Christopher's sense of what the normal state of the baseball universe should be. Now, four of those were either one-run or two-run games, meaning that they could have gone either way under slightly different circumstances. So the Tigers did pick up those odd wins. But that was a week ago. This week it's different. Next week will likely be different again. That's the problem with trying to over-analyze such a small sample. This seven-game period represents a tiny 5% of the whole season. In baseball I could give you a stat that backs up just about anything I wanted to prove. You've got to look at a range of data, and over a longer period than a week, to detect a trend.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 9, 2007 8:12 AM | HAN Fan ]

Certainly stats can back up almost anything and are frequently used for this purpose. However, a seven game run of losses (now eight) can't be dismissed as a momentary blip. It is also a bit of a stretch to assume that all one or two run games could go either way under different circumstances. Some of these are certain wins for the winning side with the losing side having no chance of making up the difference.

As you point out, the Tigers were winning the odd games, but now aren't. This is due to a collapse of both pitching and batting. It affects the team's morale and also their win/loss percentage in that the team cannot climb back into contention easily. As I mentioned, most series go 2-1, and the Tigers will need at least 6 winning series to climb back to a .500 win/loss percentage. If they manage sweeps it will be more rapid, but you cannot count on these. Then, once you reach .500, you have to hope your opponents collapse to get you back into contention, because if they keep on winning, they keep on pulling away.

Watching the games also gives you an idea of how the team is playing. Yesterday, Yan tired quickly (as Cheese has mentioned he does look out of shape) and Nohmi was totally ineffective. These two effectively finished the match for the Tigers. Batting was scattered and unfocused except for Katsuragi. This was against a pitcher who had a 9.00 ERA going into the game. Fukuda wasn't bad (in fact he was quite good), but the lack of application against him was obvious.

No, we are not looking at a momentary blip but at a big problem for the Tigers.
Akahoshi's Herniated Disk
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: May 6, 2007 1:07 PM | YBS Fan ]

If you can read Japanese, this Nikkan Sports news item states that it is a "herniated disk in the cervical vertebrae" (頸椎(けいつい)椎間板ヘルニア).

Reading the article from the paper version, it states that the injury occurred while making a diving catch against Hiroshima on May 4. Hanshin currently doesn't plan on taking Akahoshi off the roster, but is allowing him to rest (no practice) until May 6th. They will decide further action after that.
Re: Akahoshi's Herniated Disk
[ Author: Guest: JR | Posted: May 6, 2007 1:40 PM ]

Although this slump doesn't bode well, I always think things will turn around. Hanshin has done well in inter-league play, so hopefully they'll get a boost this year as well.

If the starting pitching can get more consistent and the big batters start hitting, things should be fine. I don't have a lot of faith in the middle relievers (Nohmi, Egusa, etc.), but if we can get an early lead and get to the current version of JFK (JKF), things should be OK. We just don't have any starting pitchers that are an intimidating presence right now, but hopefully we can at least get an early lead and contain other teams.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: May 6, 2007 6:16 PM | HT Fan ]

Eight in a row. Not even yaocho can save us now. Everybody panic!
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Guest: puddin head | Posted: May 6, 2007 7:02 PM ]

After the run they made at the Dragons last year, I'd say it is much, much too early to write the Tigers off just yet. This is an odd numbered year, the Tigers' "turn" to win the Central, just like '03 and '05.

Remember Firearmofmutiny's Chunichi Choke Countdown thread? There was a fan who went into panic mode. How is Firearm-san doing, anyway, these days? Good luck to his Twins. Gambatte!
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Sara B | Posted: May 6, 2007 7:51 PM | HT Fan ]

Well, we can always gaze fixedly on Mt. Rokko and intone mantras while snapping KFC pieces in the direction of Tokyo. Maybe that will help?

Anyone who has had a herniated disk knows it is serious stuff, very painful and awkward, and slow-healing - quicker for a fine athlete, we hope. But I can't imagine Akahoshi being back in the line-up soon. Bad news for Tiger fans. Grrrr.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: May 7, 2007 3:50 AM | HT Fan ]

I'm so flustered I can't even count the number of losses right.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: May 9, 2007 12:14 PM | HT Fan ]

I wonder if it might be wise to recall Head Coach Katsuo Hirata from ni-gun? Would it make much of a difference? Hoshino-(ex-)kantoku seems to think so [SanSpo - in Japanese].
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 10, 2007 7:51 AM | HAN Fan ]

That's a very good idea. The current coaching team doesn't seem to be able to arrest the decline and Hirata would help.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Guest: Pat | Posted: May 10, 2007 2:26 PM ]

Why is this a good idea? Is it a matter of change for change's sake? Is it simply that his presence would help morale? Would he help with the hitting or the pitching? How would he help them overcome tough losses like the one last night?

Christopher, you appear to be good at lecturing us on how bad the situation is for the Tigers. As someone with the finger on the pulse, what would you do if you were in charge? Do you have any original solutions you'd like to share with us?
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 10, 2007 8:36 PM | HAN Fan ]

Hirata was the first team batting coach until 2006. He is an excellent coach and good at getting players to hit in sequence.

Suggestions for change - (do you want me to cure Igawa's action as well?)

Seriously - platoon Kanoh with Yano. Bring in more young players from the second team and give them long runs. Do not use Hiyama as a starting member, and when Hamanaka returns do not platoon him. Wait until Lin starts to falter before giving Hamanaka a chance. Start looking for Imaoka's replacement. Find some reliable pinch hitters.

Pitchers need to be coached on what a strike zone is and Kubota should not be taken off too soon on the vain hope that Yano might be able to pinch hit. Teach Nohmi more pitches.

And change the uniforms, especially the Inter-League messes. Are those enough?
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 11, 2007 1:11 AM | HT Fan ]

It was a good question from Pat. Let's see ...

- He is an excellent coach and good at getting players to hit in sequence.

Hit in sequence? I should think so. I believe hitting out of sequence is not allowed under the Official Rules.

- ... platoon Kanoh with Yano...

Isn't that something they've been doing already since Kano got his first famous hit? I believe that was just before the losing streak.

- Bring in more young players from the second team and give them long runs

Sure, but there's a limit to what you can do. Unless you think the older, more established players are washed up, which is what you seem to think. If this is a temporary bad patch (which is what I believe, and Christopher, before you say I'm wrong, just wait and see what transpires over the next week or two), then this would be a dangerous move. Give more chances to the younger guys, sure, but you've got to allow the regular players a chance to play themselves back into form, too.

- Do not use Hiyama as a starting member

I believe he's being used mainly as a pinch hitter, isn't he?

- Wait until Lin starts to falter before giving Hamanaka a chance.

They seem to be using Lin regularly.

- Pitchers need to be coached on what a strike zone is

Oh come on - what is this, little league? Or maybe that's how you'd treat the players if you were in charge.

- Kubota should not be taken off too soon on the vain hope that Yano might be able to pinch hit.

Excuse me? You take a player off when the game requires it. If you've got to take the pitcher out, and Yano is the best chance for a clutch hit, then you go for it. Are you saying Yano is washed up? He has a bad stretch and you're willing to give up on him. That's ridiculous.

- Find some reliable pinch hitters

I wouldn't disagree with this. They did actually have two: Lin and Kano. But really, good pinch hitters are difficult to come by. A player spends almost a whole game on the bench and is then asked to come in at a critical time. He gets one shot, and that's it. Some players can handle that - most can't. So it's easier said than done.

- Teach Nohmi more pitches

I assume Hirata, the batting coach, will do that.

- And change the uniforms...

I assume that was an attempt at humor. Things are looking up.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 13, 2007 11:00 AM | HAN Fan ]

Yano pinch hitting is like Yano bunting. It should only be done in private between consenting adults.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 13, 2007 12:00 PM | HT Fan ]

And yet, in your very first post in this thread you say that Yano was one of only three players "showing any real application." If true, then Okada probably felt he had no choice. Better Yano than somebody else who wasn't applying himself, surely.

Sorry, just trying to apply some logic to your own words.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 10, 2007 9:39 PM | HT Fan ]

Anyway, they finally got a win tonight. The first step towards proving Christopher wrong. Go Tigers!
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Guest: JR | Posted: May 10, 2007 11:27 PM ]

I was there tonight, and a good morale booster. They missed some chances, but played to their strength - getting a lead and holding it with their bullpen. Hey, a certain team in the Bronx recently had a 7-game losing streak, and look what they've done since. No need to panic. With the playoff system, we're still just a few games off the pace even with this losing streak.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 11, 2007 9:06 AM | HT Fan ]

- No need to panic. With the playoff system, we're still just a few games off the pace even with this losing streak.

My thoughts exactly. You can't run around like Chicken Little with every setback. It's a long season, and even the best teams have bad patches. This one has lasted a little longer than normal.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 11, 2007 10:13 AM | HAN Fan ]

One swallow does not a summer make. Actually, I would love to be wrong here, but this was a bit more serious than a setback. Remember there is still shi no rodo to come.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Guest: Pat | Posted: May 11, 2007 3:36 PM ]

And by the same token, one extended losing streak does not a failed season make either.

Today's Daily Yomiuri has an article by Jim Allen, with a quote from Hiyama:

"Losing is tough, but you have to put it in perspective. It's still only May and we're eight games out. It's a lot, but we are not in the crunch days of the pennant race.

"Last year, we were eight games out in August and we nearly came back. It's not good, but it's a long season."

It think he has it about right.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 11, 2007 7:13 PM | HT Fan ]

- Remember there is still shi no rodo to come.

But that's not until August! Aren't you a bundle of sunshine this week!
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 11, 2007 8:34 PM | HAN Fan ]

Our pitchers have the capacity to snatch ignominious defeats from the jaws of certain victory. However, today's team is encouraging, Lin, Katsuragi, and Kanoh all playing. Long may it continue.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 11, 2007 11:01 PM | HT Fan ]

Yes, not to mention Imaoka, Kanemoto, and Sheets as well. Still, there's probably a Swallows fan somewhere who can't quite accept that the Tigers played masterfully tonight, complaining about how awful his team played. Let the Tigers off the hook, gave them too many soft pitches, batters swung at anything, etc, etc.
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Yakulto | Posted: May 12, 2007 10:47 AM | TYS Fan ]

Yeah!

I'm sick and tired of losing to mediocre opposition!
Re: Tigers Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 14, 2007 6:19 PM | HAN Fan ]

Welcome back. Why do you think the Swallows are not doing so well? I'm puzzled.
OT: Swallows' Woes
[ Author: Yakulto | Posted: May 14, 2007 9:01 PM | TYS Fan ]

Thanks. You're not the only one who's puzzled.

On paper we really should be a top 3/A-Class team at the very least. But the problem this year, as it has been for the last few years, is inconsistency with the pitching. Our starters can be sublime one game and shockingly bad the next (or in the case of Ishikawa this year, just plain awful). And as for our relief pitching, well, that's somewhat of a lottery really.

Of course injuries haven't helped (what I'd give for a healthy Kawashima in the rotation, not to mention an Ishii Hirotoshi in the bullpen) which have lead to our rotation changing week to week.

The only bright sparks on our pitching staff have been Greisinger starter-wise, and Endoh relief-wise, while you can never fault Kida for effort. Other than that, not a lot to shout about.

But I've thought for a while that we need a change in pitching coach as I really think we've got talent on the pitching staff which is just not being realized on a regular enough basis. A rotation that includes the likes of Kaz Ishii, Fujii, and Ishikawa should be doing much better than we are, plus the fact that there's been no progress with a lot of our younger prospects (Takai, Matsui, etc.) who, in fact, seem to regress as time goes on.

It's just so frustrating these last couple of seasons. We're like a puzzle that should be easy to solve, but for some reason you can't quite find the right combination of pieces to solve it.

Anyway, I think I've wittered enough - this is a Tigers topic after all. At least we could help reverse the Tigers' slump this last series, eh. Glad I was there to witness that.
Back to the Tigers' Woes
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 16, 2007 8:02 PM | HAN Fan ]

Thanks for the thoughts, but you only delayed the inevitable. The past two games against the Carp have been so embarrassing. Last night Shimoyanagi and Hashimoto blew it, and tonight Fukuhara and Nohmi. Something does need to be done about the Tigers' pitching as it is totally useless.
Carp vs. Tigers: Same Old Story
[ Author: Guest: Cardiff Carp | Posted: May 16, 2007 8:46 PM ]

Don't you just love it?!

Anyone like to give any credit to the Carp for their form against the Tigers of late? The standings table is a fair reflection of the Carp's results over the last three weeks - below Yokohama and Chunichi, above the Tigers and Yakult.

Luckily Carp fans don't feel they have some God-given right to beat certain other teams. We just enjoy it while it lasts.
Re: Carp vs. Tigers: Same Old Story
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 16, 2007 10:53 PM | HT Fan ]

- Anyone like to give any credit to the Carp for their form against the Tigers of late?

Yes! Good batting can make any pitching attack look totally useless. And vice versa for good pitching. The Carp have been playing well.
Re: Carp vs. Tigers: Same Old Story
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 17, 2007 7:35 AM | HAN Fan ]

Good batting? When NHK goes as far as to describe one of Shimoyanagi's pitches as an "easy slider" (which Maeda dispatched for a 3 run home run) good batting is not a term that comes to mind. Furthermore, when runs come from passed balls and wild pitches (which they have done in the past two games) good batting is not a term one chooses. As their record against other teams shows, the Carp have been as mediocre as ever and have only done well against the Tigers.

The problem is the Tigers themselves, not any improvement in the Carp. It is not that Tigers' pitching attack looks useless, it is that it is useless.
Re: Carp vs. Tigers: Same Old Story
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 17, 2007 10:19 AM | HT Fan ]

Methinks someone with only mediocre batting could find it difficult to dispatch any pitch to the bleachers. As our Carp friend said, give at least some credit to the Carp for taking advantage of the Tiger mistakes.

Of course I know the Tigers have been awful the last two nights, but can't you see I'm only baiting you? Honestly, it's like waving a flag in front of a bull. I'm enjoying this.
Re: Carp vs. Tigers: Same Old Story
[ Author: Guest: Pat | Posted: May 17, 2007 2:44 PM ]

I think Cardiff Carp's point is that his team deserves more respect, and that the standings are a fair reflection of how the teams have been playing. I'd have to agree. If the Tigers are the better team, then they've got to prove that. So far they haven't. If they end up stuck in fifth at the end of the season, then that's their ranking. No ifs or buts. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as they say.
Re: Carp vs. Tigers: Same Old Story
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 17, 2007 8:37 PM | HAN Fan ]

Yes I thought you might be baiting, but sometimes the bait is just too tempting to resist. Now what do you think the Tigers need to do to improve?
Re: Carp vs. Tigers: Same Old Story
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 17, 2007 11:56 PM | HT Fan ]

- Now what do you think the Tigers need to do to improve?

What would I do?

  1. Create a new staff position - "motivational specialist" - and offer you the post.
  2. Force the pitchers to throw strikes. Force the batters to hit. I hear that electric shock treatment works wonders for intransigent ballplayers.
  3. Invite every Tiger fan in Kansai to offer their opinion as to what to do. In that way, I'd receive the benefit of 4,452,123 completely different strategies. By the time I worked my way through these, the season would have ended and it would no longer be my problem.
Re: Carp vs. Tigers: Same Old Story
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 18, 2007 10:11 AM | HAN Fan ]

Number 2 sounds dangerously soft to me. Personally I favor the option that the England cricket selectors used to use - bringing back a former player long past his best. Okada's moment of glory approaches.
Re: Carp vs. Tigers: Same Old Story
[ Author: Deanna | Posted: May 18, 2007 3:24 PM | NIP Fan ]

Ooh, it can be just like that "futarime no mister" scene in Mr. Rookie when they bring in "Mr. Bass" to pinch-hit! Though "Mr. Okada" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
Re: Carp vs. Tigers: Same Old Story
[ Author: mijow | Posted: May 18, 2007 7:24 PM | HT Fan ]

- Personally I favor the option that the England cricket selectors used to use...

Ah yes, English cricket, the pinnacle of sporting prowess.
Re: Carp vs. Tigers: Same Old Story
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: May 18, 2007 11:13 PM | HAN Fan ]

Bring back W. G. Grace is all I have to say.
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