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Correlating Japanese with American

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Correlating Japanese with American
Let's start at the beginning. I've been working on a baseball calendar for years now, and I've included the birthdates & overview stats of most of Japan's better players. Thank you Westbay-san! I still don't know a lot about most players until I first found Jim Albright's page on The Baseball Guru. He has tried to make an objective ranking of Japanese players and explains why he put each in their ranking. I thought it might be an interesting idea to see what American player most closely correlates with what Japanese player.

I will use his text, the career totals and awards he provides, as well as Total Baseball 7, and try to consider the time period when each player played. I would like any help you can provide about whether a Japanese player had brief greatness or was above-average over a longer time, career walk totals for Japanese pitchers, Japanese park factors if relevant. I would like to go through one player each weekday that I'm at this e-mail address.

I will start at the top of Albright's list and work my way down, although some of the many pitchers seem to run together after a while. Please let me know where I am accurate or where I'm not.
Comments
Re: Correlating Japanese with American
[ Author: Guest: Jim Albright | Posted: Jan 3, 2004 11:38 AM ]

One key thing to keep in mind is that the period 1936-44 in Japan is probably most similar to 1901-19 in the majors in that the home run was not a part of the game. Japanese baseball scoring historically has been about 1 run less per game between the two teams, which kind of messes up such comparisons.

While Oh is in many ways the Babe Ruth of NPB, if you read my series of articles on Oh, his talent level comes out much more like his contemporary, Willie McCovey. A MLB comparison for Nomura's power and durability at catcher would be very difficult -- he isn't as talented as Piazza or Josh Gibson by any means, but in NPB terms, he's that kind of hitter.

Eventually, I will try to determine who in NPB I think would be worthy of Cooperstown, but I've got to finish the current project first.

Jim Albright
Re: Correlating Japanese with American
[ Author: GottaHaveWa | Posted: Jan 4, 2004 11:54 AM ]

I'm kind of surprised you'd compare Oh with McCovey. You said Oh dominated yakyu like no one else has. McCovey wasn't even the best player of his day, with Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Frank Robinson, etc.

I guess I've already goofed on my Nomura comparison. True, I couldn't find a Major League equivalent, but I found an equivalent in another league that had major-league level talent.
Re: Correlating Japanese with American
[ Author: Guest: Jim Albright | Posted: Jan 4, 2004 10:45 PM ]

Look at the articles on Oh and the Hall of Fame. By comparing what gaijin of Oh's time who played in the majors had done, I came up with data to convert his Japanese stats. Oh comes out with a .279 career average, 2,778 hits and 527 HR, plus over 2200 walks. McCovey comes reasonably close on all counts but the walks.

The issue I'm getting at is that there are two ways to look at this: first, how Oh or other players look solely in terms of NPB, in which case Ruth is appropriate. The second is what kind of player was Oh in general, in which case McCovey is more appropriate.

NPB has yet to be the equal of MLB, which accounts for the difference. Of course, comparing a player to Willie shouldn't exactly be considered an insult, as he is one of the great all-time first basemen, just not the greatest.

Jim Albright

[Note by westbaystars: Willie was my favorite player growing up a SF Giants fan in California's Central Valley in the 1970s. I see it as a great complement.]
Re: Correlating Japanese with American
[ Author: GottaHaveWa | Posted: Jan 5, 2004 11:04 PM ]

Yes, I am looking at Japanese players "solely in terms of NPB," as you put it. Projecting what a yakyu player would do in the Major Leagues is always dangerous, but we can say what style of player he compares with in the Major Leagues.
Re: Correlating Japanese with American
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Jan 6, 2004 11:32 AM ]

GottaHaveWa wrote:
Projecting what a yakyu player would do in the Major Leagues is always dangerous. [...]

I wouldn't call it "dangerous" at all. Yes, the method I use is not exact, nor can it be. However, compare what I projected Oh at to how he actually fared against good major league teams (and pitchers), though usually in Japanese parks. There's more than a passing similarity.

The method I used is based on averages derived from tens of thousands of matched at bats (basically it's the same team used identically, one in the majors and one in NPB). Certainly, some players are somewhat better than the average, and some worse. However, for players with several hundred matched AB, I doubt you could find any players who don't come out reasonably close to the projection. You'd have to apply it to the nearest seasons in the other league, which is how the numbers were calculated. It mirrors Bill James' minors to majors projection system, which is quite accurate in describing the style of play and talent level of the player in question.

Frankly, I think my projection system is at least approximately as accurate as what you're trying to do for most hitters, and for tough cases like Katsuya Nomura, I think it is superior.

One class of players I would hesitate to make this claim for is pre-1946 NPB players due to the deadball nature of the game in Japan at that time. Pitchers are also more shaky in terms of projections, as their records have far less predictive quality (i.e. hitters will generally have relatively similar seasons year in and year out, though showing certain marks of aging, while pitchers can and do vary widely from year to year, often due to arm troubles).

Jim Albright

Re: Correlating Japanese with American
[ Author: Kiyoshi | Posted: Jan 3, 2004 2:16 PM | HAN Fan ]

This is an interesting project. Through the years people have referred to certain players as the "Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, etc. of Japan." One Korean player was even called the "Ichiro of Korea."

I think Hideki Matsui expressed it best when he stated that neither Japanese or MLB is better or worse. They are like comparing "apples to oranges."

Good luck with your project.
Re: Correlating Japanese with American
[ Author: GottaHaveWa | Posted: Jan 5, 2004 11:06 PM ]

I'm not sure if I'd go so far to say that neither Japanese baseball or MLB is worse, since several MLers who have struggled here go onto to be league leaders in Japan. But there are certainly exciting players in both leagues.
Re: Correlating Japanese with American
[ Author: KazMetsui | Posted: Jan 6, 2004 2:01 PM ]

Baseball is such a great sport! The game simply doesn't end with the last out. Even "meaningless" games take on great meaning because they generate a player's cumulative stats. A player's cumulative stats "live on" and fuel our debates for decades.

As I said, baseball, in the US, in Japan, from the sandlot, to the stadium, is such a great sport!
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