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Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!

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Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
I'm watching the game live. Yamai pitched 8 perfect innings and Ochiai pulls him for a closer in the ninth.

Terrible. Ochiai deserves scorn from the fans, the players, everyone!
Comments
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Nov 2, 2007 12:03 AM | YBS Fan ]

Again, similarities and differences to last season flash through the mind.

Well, it wasn't exactly the same, but how many here recall the problem that exploded [exploding Ham!] between Hillman-kantoku and Kanemura-pitcher at the end of last season? With another out or two to qualify for the win, Hillman-kantoku went out to the mound to have a word with Kanemura, and Kanemura threw a fit - there on the field, and outside the stadium after the game. He criticized his manager for what amounted to putting the team ahead of his individual records. Needless to say, Kanemura didn't get much support from anyone and was suspended and fined by the Fighters for his outburst.

I would like to note that Kanemura learned his lesson, and in Game 4 of the Nippon Series last year, with two down in the fifth, needing one more out to qualify for the win, Hillman-kantoku went out to the mound to talk with him. And he behaved as a professional should. It was a bit of a stress reliever, and Kanemura went on to win the game.

Why do I bring that up when Kanemura didn't have anything going like a perfect game? To emphasize the difference between individual and team achievements. Ochiai-kantoku won three Triple Crowns in his playing days, so he understands individual achievement. He also understands that individuals don't win championships, teams do.

The way I see it, Ochiai-kantoku took a huge gamble to more definitely unify the team. If Iwase failed in any way, even just allowing a base runner on an error, it would be catastrophic for team morale. A lynch mob would form outside of Nagoya Dome. Having brought the Dragons this far for 3 of his 4 years as manager wouldn't be enough from roasting him alive.

But Iwase came through. While what Yamai did was incredible, it became the team that won this game, not Yamai alone. And so long as I don't open up tomorrow's newspaper to find Yamai spewing words similar to Kanemura last year, the Dragons are going to be an even more formidable team to deal with in the upcoming Asian Series than they would have been had Yamai completed this game on his own.

Then there's the law of averages, and it was just a matter of time before somebody got a hit off of him. But that's not nearly as inspiring of a reason.

Let me say this, though. I've heard that there are a lot of players who don't like Ochiai-kantoku's style of managing. He just turns in his lineup (mostly a copy of the previous day with a different pitcher) and watches the game. He gives the players very little feedback, positive or kicking them when they return to the dugout (ala Hoshino-kantoku). He retires quietly to the clubhouse pretty much the same, win or lose. Some interpret that as not caring, but I don't think that's it. I don't know exactly what it is to the alternative, but it's a higher level of professionalism than most in the game over here are used to. So the silent Ochai goes misunderstood, and often disliked, by many.

But look at the results. Hoshino-kantoku, the savior of the Tigers, who yelled and kicked the Dragon players to Central League championships in 1988 and 1999 was unable to unify the team like the mild mannered Ochiai has done.

I guess it's like the Zeroth Law of Managing (apologies to you Isaac Asimov fans). A manager must do what is best for the team, even if an individual player's record/ego comes to harm.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: Guest: Cheese | Posted: Nov 2, 2007 8:24 AM ]

Some of the greatest pitchers have never thrown a perfect game. If Chunichi had a one run lead in Game 7, I think you could perhaps excuse Ochiai's decision. I'm all for putting the team ahead of individual records. But with Chunichi up 3-1 in the Series, and such an incredibly rare feat within Yamai's grasp, I would have liked to have seen him given the ball in the 9th. Ochiai could've at least had a word in his ear telling him he could go for the perfect game, but he'd give him the hook if he put a runner on base.

Yes, it's all about the team. The history books will always show Chunichi, the team, as the 2007 Nippon Champions. But this would have been a great story and a great historical performance in itself. As a baseball fan, I'm incredibly disappointed with what Ochiai did.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 2, 2007 9:51 AM | HAN Fan ]

An excellent analysis Michael. I thought that Ochiai managed with his head not his heart. Hoshino was the other way.

Of course, it would have been a difficult decision, but it showed Ochiai at his best.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: larryo | Posted: Nov 2, 2007 12:37 PM | HT Fan ]

- [...] I thought that Ochiai managed with his head not his heart. Hoshino was the other way.

Of course, it would have been a difficult decision, but it showed Ochiai at his best.


A better way of putting it is that Hoshino managed the game with passion and Ochiai manages like a computer programmer. Hoshino was a better manager, and certainly a more exciting one imo.

And for you to say "... it would have been a difficult decision, but it showed Ochiai at his best" means you don't understand the game. I may be wrong, but I doubt that you ever played the game Christopher. There would have been much greater honor (and best for player morale) if Ochiai let Yamai go for immortality. I'm sure that the players feel the same way, whether they admit it or not. The fans do, too.

One of the reasons Yamai was perfect for 8 innings is because he was helped by great defense. A couple of long running catches in the outfield coupled with a fantastic diving catch/throw at second base. The fielders knew nobody had reached first base and were making dangerous lunging plays get the out to preserve that perfect game!

If Michael is right and Yamai did have a sore arm and wanted a closer to take over, that is one thing (and it would amount to the most selfless sacrifice in recent memory). It may or may not be true - he could be seething inside and is being the loyal company man in front of the media.

Chunichi was ahead 3-1 in the Series. It may have been the best decision based on computer analysis of the situation, but it was the wrong decision. It diminished the final game victory and Chunichi's first yusho in 53 years.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 2, 2007 2:46 PM | HAN Fan ]

Maybe so, but it is not a manager's role to think of the player's individual record. It is his job to think of and plan the victory. Of course the two can be happily the same, but sometimes they clash and the manager has to decide on priorities. Honor is all very well, but it doesn't always bring back the victories.

Management is about taking these tough decisions for the organization as a whole, not for individuals. If you can combine the two, that is good. But if you can't, the individual should always be second and the team first. That is what Ochiai did (and hopefully Yamai also thought), and this is why it showed him at his best. Passion is essential, but also necessary is a cool head to evaluate the risks and rewards of each course of action. That is what makes a great manager.

As for the victory being diminished, I disagree. It was the first perfect game in Nippon Series history - it was a great achievement by both pitchers, and the Dragons have their first Japan Series Title in 53 years. I think they are happy with that.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: Guest: Cheese | Posted: Nov 2, 2007 5:41 PM ]

- Management is about taking these tough decisions for the organization as a whole, not for individuals. If you can combine the two, that is good. But if you can't, the individual should always be second and the team first.

I don't think anyone will disagree with you there Christpher, although I still would've liked to have seen Yamai given a chance at least. If he puts the tying run on base in the 9th, yes by all means, get him out of there.

Interesting to hear the thoughts of some analysts on TV today. It seems many are divided over this, and I think everyone already has their mind made up on this one. I think you'll find a lot of Ochiai's decision was formed around leaving Yamamoto in a game too long in the Nippon Series last year. He went to the mound, asked Yamamoto if he was OK, took the pitcher's word for it, and got burnt.

It was a pretty dull, one-sided Series in the end with the Fighters failing to execute in key situations. One swing of the bat in Game 1 saved it from being a complete whitewash, although Darvish was excellent. For me having a pitcher throw a perfect game would have left us with something memorable regarding this Series, although I'm sure no Dragons fans are complaining.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Nov 2, 2007 10:30 AM | YBS Fan ]

Please let me read to you what Yamai had to say:
個人の記録は、この試合に関して全然関係ない。最後は岩瀬さんに投げてほしかった。僕の方から「代わります」と言った。

This game was not about an individual record. In the end, I wanted Iwase to throw. The "Change [pitchers]" was voiced from me.
Source: Nikkan Sports November 2, 2007 Kanto Area paper edition, page 3.

I left the Japanese in there so that you can translate his words yourself (those of you who understand Japanese).

Now, for some background to the story.

Yamai had been having arm trouble for the past couple of seasons. He didn't pitch at all in 2006, and his first start this season was on July 6. [See Yamai's profile page for career stats.] He only threw in 14 games in 2007, going 6 and 4. And he was feeling pain in his arm again at the end of the season, so he missed the Climax Series all together.

After the 8th inning, Mori-chief batter coach asked Yamai how he was holding up. That is what prompted the above response from Yamai. Does that mean that Mori-coach saw something that the rest of us were too busy marveling at Yamai's performance to notice? Yamai's reaction certainly suggests that that was the case.

I'm greatly impressed that the 29 year old would put the team ahead of any such record like that. To admit if something was wrong rather than try to do it all and push himself beyond the breaking point, possibly causing him to sit out another season, takes a lot more courage than continuing.

On a side note, Iwase's comment was that he'd never been under so much pressure in his life. The half-century curse on top of taking over a perfect game. Talk about a high pressure situation. Over 12 1/3rd innings spanning from 1999 to 2007, Iwase has not allowed a single earned run in the Nippon Series in 12 games now. If anyone could stand up to that pressure, it was Iwase.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: Guest: JR | Posted: Nov 2, 2007 12:41 PM ]

Of course I was very disappointed when Yamai was lifted, but I expected it. Everyone wanted to see him out there, but I also think a majority of managers would have gone to Iwase. When you are three outs away from your first title in 53 years, it makes sense to give the ball to one of the best closers in recent years in Japan. If there was more insurance out there, sure you can stick with your starter. But the Dragons were clinging to a 1-0 lead. Lose the game and you are headed back to Sapporo, one of the hardest places to play.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Nov 2, 2007 1:01 PM ]

- I'm greatly impressed that the 29 year old would put the team ahead of any such record like that. To admit if something was wrong rather than try to do it all and push himself beyond the breaking point, possibly causing him to sit out another season, takes a lot more courage than continuing.

It wasn't his decision to make.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: Guest: Steve | Posted: Nov 3, 2007 10:00 PM ]

It was his decision to make.

Being honest in that situation was the right thing to do. And putting in a guy that has consistently closed people down was also the right thing to do. This team hasn't won in 50 plus years.

Possibly giving new life to a team heading back to their home. A manager has to go with what he thinks is the best option to kill off a foe.

Any manager worth his salt would do the same in that situation. It was 1-0 not 5-0.

Ochiai got us a championship. The perfect game was just icing.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Nov 4, 2007 11:13 PM ]

What it shows me is that Yamai was a sissy as opposed to Ochiai being a typical conservative Nagoyan. Show some round objects, Yamai.

A chance to make history. History! Win the title by pitching a perfect game, at home. The weakest part of a weak batting order is coming up in the ninth inning - the 7, 8, and 9 hitters.

Heck, tough it out for another inning. If the first batter gets on base, then go to your closer. I'm trying to remember another time that a pitcher was pulled from a game after 8 perfect innings, without even taking the mound for the ninth.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: Guest: steve | Posted: Nov 6, 2007 7:49 PM ]

A Sissy? Because he didn't pull a Curt Schilling and make the game all about himself?

53 years without a title! How many times have we seen light hitters turn a series around? Ask Cleveland about not shutting a team down with 2 games in hand.

They made history with that win.
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: BigManZam | Posted: Nov 7, 2007 6:57 AM | CLM Fan ]

I thought I read about Ochiai claiming Yamai had a blister developing. Anyone want to confirm this?
Re: Pulls Yamai After 8 perfect Innings?!
[ Author: HaruSaru | Posted: Nov 9, 2007 7:51 PM | HC Fan ]

Ochiai is talking about that Yamai got a blister (mame) on his finger in the interview here [YouTube]. The talk about this appears from the 6th minute.
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