Bobby V. Leaving Marines?

- Is Bobby V. the heir to the New York Yankee's job next season?

Bobby Valentine isn't the heir to the Yankees' manager position. Torre is with the team for three more years.

- A Worchester Sports writer thinks he will be managing Seattle in 2005.

I should say that I highly expect Valentine to stay in Japan. Actually I'm sure of this, that Valentine will stay in Japan.

The three year contract has nothing to do with Torre leaving. If the New York Yankees win the World Series this year, Torre will retire - just like Mel S., the Pitching coach. If they lose Torre, the honeymoon with the fans is over. They'll want what ever little hair he has left on his head.

Torre has done a decent job. His GM has done a better one. By this week, the New York Yankees should aquire Johnson from Arizona and mystery players from two National League teams. Supposedly, either a first baseman or outfield position player.

There is no way Randy Johnson will be a Yankee. The D-Backs want something in exchange for him and the Yankees have nothing to give except veteran players. They will not part ways with Posada or any other player for that matter. The D-Backs will probably send him to Anaheim where they may get something back from their farm teams.

Note: The Yankees do not have any prospect in A, AA, or AAA worthy of a Big Unit trade unless they offer the vets.

Bobby V will not be a Yankee manager. His debacle with the Mets was good enough. The Yankees will never take an ex-Met, or better yet, an ex-Red Sox. The next manager will not only need to be like Torre, who was great at keeping Steinbrenner from joking every player, but also manage a bunch of overpaid ego's to keep in check.

If the Yankees ever hit a losing streak and not win a World Series - it is a failed season. Let's see how many managers can handle that.

The New York Yankees have something better than prospects, it's called "money." It will be a two balance leger for the D-Backs - reduce their expenses and increase their revenue.

However, the Yankees do have two of the top 20 AAA prospects as well. Dioner Navarro, a catcher, who has all the skills for MLB, and Robby Cano, a left handed second baseman who can cover the infield with speed and good hands. One other player who could earn high marks is Mitch Jones, an outfielder playing in AA. He seems to have the power in a league that's known for pitching.

By the way, Torre played for and managed the Mets. Lee Mazilli played for the Mets and was a coach for the Yankees, and is now the manager for Baltimore. Don Zimmer played for the Mets, managed the Red Sox, then coached for the Yankees.

Fine, you got me there with the ex-Met ex-Red Sox thing. However, it did sound good.

Rumor has it, the only way The Unit will be a Yankee is if it involved Micky Mantle. Just Kidding. It would have to be a three way deal because of contract issues. Contreras' name has been mentioned, but the Yanks owe him $17 million. The Yankees have said they will cover at least have of that in the deal to D-Backs, but Selig will not approve such a deal.

It will be interesting to see what will unfold in the next couple of days. I do hope the Yanks get him.

As for Bobby V., I do not see him back in MLB for some time.

Thomas, thank you for mentioning Bobby V.

Again, the topic started deviating from Japanese or Asian baseball. Let's try to keep postings focused on Japanese or Asian baseball.

- Bobby V will not be a Yankee manager. His debacle with the Mets was good enough. The Yankees will never take an ex-Met, or better yet, an ex-Red Sox.

Do you remember that Joe Torre is an ex-Met? So is Mel Stottlemeyer for that matter. George has hired more ex-Mets as players and coaches than anyone.

That being said, Joe Torre isn't going anywhere, and Bobby V. might come back to the Mets.

If Bobby V could get the Yankee job, he would be out of here. But that won't happen any time soon as the players in the U.S. don't like his style of management. I would argue that he's good for baseball as he keeps the egos of MLB players in check, but I know the players don't agree.

As far as the comment above that Torre has done a "good" job and Cashman a "better" one, that's ridiculous. Cashman has thrown more money at mediocre players than any GM out there: $32 million to Jose Contreras, way too much to Hideki Irabu, $21 million to Matsui (who has been fair, but c'mon $7m/year for .280 and 20hr?). His use of the team's capital has been irresponsible at best. With the loot that he has to throw around, he should be able to acquire talent and win the World Series every year.

Torre gets it done managing the egos in the clubhouse; and in fairness to him, their setup pitchers have really fallen off, though the closer still gets it done. If one wishes to laud Cashman for anything, it's managing to keep his job with ole meglomanical jorge [sic] as his boss, and that's about it. Time will show that the current Yankees' management have been some of the worst purveyors of talent ever.

I'm not a Yankee fan by any means, but if you think Matsui is overpaid, then clearly you don't think of baseball as a business. Do you have any idea how much Yankee merchandise is moving in Japan? I don't, but I know that I see it everywhere here, and that it has probably paid for Matsui's salary and then some. Baseball is more than just a game on the field.

Matsui is a d*** fine clutch ball player. There are a lot of guys out there making more money for a lesser results. Don't forget he can also play any spot in the outfield if needed. He is a gamer, and a winner.

- I'm not a Yankee fan by any means, but if you think Matsui is overpaid, then clearly you don't think of baseball as a business. Do you have any idea how much Yankee merchandise is moving in Japan? I don't, but I know that I see it everywhere here, and that it has probably paid for Matsui's salary and then some. Baseball is more than just a game on the field.

Actually, merchandising revenue from all MLB items sold, be it Cubs, Dodgers, or Yankees, goes into the same pool and is then evenly divided between the players and the teams. Matsui's presence in New York really does not provide extra merchandising income to the Yankees, because the Yankees get the same share from the reveune as the Expos.

Forget the merchandising, it's gravy. Matsui-san the player is gold. With his play, he is worth at least $10M/year.

I heard that Bobby V. was planning a trip back to the States soon, apparently to visit a deathly ill friend. Might that have something to do with the source of these new job rumors, or might this sick friend be a cover story for some sort of negotiations?

Thoughts?

- Might that have something to do with the source of these new job rumors, or might this sick friend be a cover story for some sort of negotiations?

Valentine is under contract with the Marines. Like I said before, I'm sure Valentine will stay in Japan.

He has already gone and come back. In fact, I read about him going to the States the same day that Kalesnik-san posted the question, and wondered if there was a connection.

But a "Worchester sports writer" probably doesn't realize that not everyone considers working for a Japanese team an undesirable alternative to working for the MLB. It's the same flaw many U.S. Americans have, that there are only two types of people in the world: Americans and those who want to be Americans. Neither premise is valid in the real world. Baseball does not revolve around the MLB any more than Pro Yakyu revolves around the Yomiuri Giants. Arguements can be made for either case, but in the end, neither holds true for everyone.

I didn't know that Bobby V. came Stateside for a visit. However, I did hear that Bobby had a 40 minute telephone conference with GM Cashman about NPB pitcher Akiarra [sic - either Arakaki or Akira?]. I believe he pitches for the Hawks. Also a relief pitcher for the BlueWave.

By the way, look at the chic White Sox relief pitchers. I think everyone would agree that, again, a proven NPB player has done what was expected of him.

I don't think Bobby V. will be managing the Yankees anytime soon. He seems to have found what he wants in managing in Japan. He was a fine sports analyst on ESPN, and if he ever returned to the US, my bet is he would do that. He could run his mouth and be in the catbird seat.

I agree Westbatstars-san, that many fans have no appreciation of NPB and have a hard time understanding why anyone who can play or manage in MLB would work in Japan. I think the rationale centers on one's cultural familiarity and the assumption, right or wrong, that MLB has the best overall talent, pays the best, has the largest audience, and therefore is the premier professional baseball league. To me, some people like to work for Microsoft and others in smaller companies. It doesn't mean Microsoft is a better place to be. It's a personal decision.

I do find your statement a bit offensive that, in your humble opinion, there are two types of people: Americans and those that want to be. I respect your personal journey and appreciate it, but this sort of comment is not only inaccurate among all 280 million of us, but it is most unbecoming of you. That chip on your shoulder must weigh a great deal. Lastly, it has nothing to do with baseball or NPB.

My apologies for the offense.

I certainly don't believe that, and I'm sure that the majority of the 280 million Americans don't either. It's just that a large number of people in the mainstream press do seem to have that attitude, and it greatly disturbs me at times. But over-generalization is a Bad Thing, and I need to control my pessimistic fits better.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Generalizations are, in general, to be avoided (as a general rule, generally). But I think Westbay-san's feeling here have very real foundations, and I understand well where he is coming from. That discussion could lead into a broader talk about America's place in today's international community, of course. It looks a lot different from outside the border (in this case, Canada). But that's for a different web site.

Back on topic:

Reading from the beginning of this thread, I am amazed at how it all trickled out from some extremely poor assumptions. Torre is near sainthood in NYC and will not be leaving the Bronx anytime soon. Valentine will clearly be in Japan for a few years at least. And Johnson didn't end up going anywhere (and probably didn't want to). Bad dope indeed.

No problem. I have my moments, too.

Make no mistake, there are some stupid people over here, as everywhere. You should see some of the stupid and offesive NY Met fan board postings on Matsui-san. Ignorant, stupid passing of gas. I was offended. Fortunately, they were in the minority and knowledgable fans and good stand-up people posted overwhelmingly in his defense.

The Met fans, it seems, according to WFAN, have a less than 50-50 liking of Kaz's play. He's on the DL now along with (according to some Met fans) the "real" shortstop Reyes. Met fans feel they got snookered again by a NPB hot-shot (the previous one was Shingo [?]).

I think it would be hard for Kaz to come up with enough votes for RoY honors.

Joel Sherman, a writer for the New York Post, mentioned in one article that the Bobby V. managing the New York Yankees story was spread like butter by a writer who hates the Yankees from top to bottom. This writer was the same person who would not cast a vote for Matsui last year for the AL RoY.

[by westbaystars: Which "Shingo" are you referring to? I don't follow the Mets, but none of the six in my NPB player database have played for them to my knowledge.]

- Which "Shingo" are you referring to? I don't follow the Mets, but none of the six in my NPB player database have played for them to my knowledge.

I think he's talking about Tsuyoshi Shinjo.

I do not know if I was the particular Met fan referred to as calling Reyes a "real" shortstop, but I will admit that on at least one occasion I have made that exact statement in the Nichi-Bei boards regarding Matsui-san. I only meant that he is better suited for the position in respect to his arm.

In any event, I am not sure many Met fans like myself really felt "snookered" by Tsuyoshi Shinjo. He played stellar defense in center field, and was actully one of the better outfielders on a bad Met team. In my humble opinion, Shinjo was well liked by most Met fans.

Large digression:

Did I just see Bobby V. in a TV ad for chewing gum for people with false teeth? I just caught a glimpse of that ad so it was hard to tell, but it certainly looked like him and it had a very relevant theme (baseball manager/coach argues with ump, kicks dirt, throws hat, etc.). With juicy endorsements like that, who could possibly be lured back to MLB?!

I saw that commercial, too. But I was using the radio for audio, so I didn't catch any of the commercial's dialog. Same with the LiveDoor ads that I've seen. Radio commentary is so much better than the TV, and I've only seen these ads during Giants' games, which are also on the radio.

I've also seen Ogasawara doing Nippon Ham commercials. And Shinjo doing ads for Oranamin C.

There's a great deal written about how the ball clubs are just an extension of the marketing departments of the various teams. Yet, not many ball players are used to endorse the parent companies' products.

I almost feel silly posting this, having argued that Bobby would stay in Japan because he likes it. The jungle drums are starting to beat that Bobby V. will be back managing the Mets in 2005. The current manager, Art Howe, is a laconic type and the press say the players have given up. One vet referred to the situation as like "playing for your grandfather." (There's a cultural difference right there, but the quote was probably from the peeved John Franco, hanger-on.)

Anyway, what are the rumors in Japan on this? Bobby likes Japan, but under the right circumstances, anything is possible. He still has a special place in his heart for the Mets - and some unfinished business, like a World Series ring.

- Bobby likes Japan, but under the right circumstances, anything is possible.

Anything is possible with Valentine. If he were to come back to the majors he might manage for the Mets, though I'm still holding to my prediction that I highly expect Valentine to stay in Japan. He likes managing there and I just don't see him coming back.

There is a factor that you all don't seem to be considering: the "Lotte Hawks."

While nobody has come out and said who the second merger will be between, the press seems pretty sure that it will be between Lotte and Daiei. Daiei is going through a large restructuring of their main business, the department store chain, and may be forced to give up their ball club to help pay off depts. Lotte has express interest in a possible merger, but continues to state to the press that nothing is going on. The "second merger" talks are happening with a press blackout between two undisclosed clubs in an effort to avoid the backlash that the Kintetsu-Orix merger is seeing until it is too late to do anything about it.

Now, if Lotte and Daiei were to merge, they would most likely play in Fukuoka, where the fans have made it clear that they're baseball fans through and through, averaging over 40,000 fans a game. If the two clubs were to join, who would get the managerial post: Oh or Valentine? Unless Oh-kantoku volunteers for retirement (or gets an offer to manage the Giants again), I think he'll be the first choice. Yes, Valentine-kantoku is very popular, but Oh-kantoku is a living legend. If Valentine is let go after this season, this is the only reason I can think of for his release.

Despite a court order to stop the merger talks between Orix and Kintetsu, the owners don't appear to have any intention of giving up on their restructuring plans, including a second merger to be announced next month (September).

That is a very good observation, Westbaystars-san. I was not aware of this.

Oh-san is a legend and I see no way they would pick Bobby V. over Oh-san. I also don't see Bobby V. getting outside the spotlight of Tokyo.

Would Bobby V. have a viable opportunity to manage elsewhere in Japan?

What is the latest news on the Daiei/Lotte merger? Will Bobby V. be out of a job? In a radio interview (from NY Daily News) about returning to the Mets (after he blasted the veterans for ratting on him) in 2001, Valentine didn't dismiss the idea of returning to Shea. He said, "Let's say that everything is open for conversation." A source close to Valentine said that before he left for his current managerial job in Japan, Fred Wilpon told him over lunch, "I fired the wrong guy."

Jim Duquette's speech "I'm not ruling out anybody or anything, but it's probably not likely" [Link - New York Daily News] said there's a possibility, but it's not likely Valentine will be managing the Mets next year. I still expect Valentine to be managing the Marines next year.

A Newsday poll, showed that 28.5% of people want Valentine back as manager, this is only second to Lou Piniella. Though, regardless of whatever anyone wants, Valentine won't be managing in the majors next year. [Link - Newsday]

Not that I want to see it, but the appointment of Omar Minaya as Mets' Head of Baseball Operations and Piniella's declaration that he will stay with Tampa Bay may increase the chances of Booby V. returning to the Mets. Minaya had a good relationship with Bobby.

If he likes managing in Japan, he'll stay, but the jungle drums are picking up on the Bobby V. rumors.

Radio WFAN, New York reports that Bobby Valentine does have an out cluse with his NPB bosses. If offered a MLB managing job he likes, he can leave.

Mets' fans are extreamly happy with the latest developments of their club, a new GM and maybe Bobby V. will reconsider. Some fans say that it will help Kazuo Matsui, because Bobby V. has high regards of former NPB players.

- Mets' fans are extreamly happy with the latest developments of their club, a new GM and maybe Bobby V. will reconsider.

Mets fans should definetly be happy with their current developments, but that doesn't mean Valentine will be managing next year. The Mets and their fans need to get used to someone else managing their club next year, who isn't Valentine. Don't get me wrong, I think Valentine is the best person for the Mets' managerial job, and it is still puzzling to me why the Mets dismissed him in the first place. But I just don't see him returning to the Mets this time around.

A statement by new Mets' GM Omar Minaya said that a published report that the Mets had set up a meeting with Valentine "were inaccurate." [Link - MLB.com]

There were some whispers as to whether the Seattle Mariners were interested in hiring Bobby V. as their manager. Having just fired Bob Melvin, their management is now out looking for a new leader for their team. Any truth to this?

Most Mariners' fans would gladly keep Melvin if it meant that Howard Linclon was booted. As for Valentine, as long as Lincoln is there, one doubts that somebody as outspoken as Valentine would be hired. Instead, we will end up with another organization man like Joe Maddon or Jimy Williams. Jimy Willians? Are they serious? Jim Fregosi? Terry Collins? I mean [come on!], they want to turn the team into the retread tire shop of MLB.

There is some talk that Ron Washington will be interviewed, which would be a fresh choice. But I wouldn't count on him being hired. Collins would destroy that team the same way he almost did the Angels before he "resigned." Bill Kreuger suggested Kirk Gibson, which would be equally disastrous. I liked Kirk as a player, but his Dodgers teammates mostly despised him.

This isn't to denigrate any of the above mentioned as baseball men, btw. But aside from Washington or somebody like Dave Stewart (which might be interesting if he were looking for that sort of job), there isn't a whole lot of excitement that is being generated in this search.

I'm a Mets fan. And I would love to have Bobby V. back. There was no reason to let him go in the first place. There is a post on www.mets.com that says 55% of fans want Bobby V. back.

Is it true that there is an out in his contract that says if he is offered an MLB job he can take it?

- Is it true that there is an out in his contract that says if he is offered an MLB job he can take it?

There was a short article in Nikkan Sports several days ago about Bobby returning from Korea. In a short aside about his Korean scouting trip, Valentine-kantoku confirmed that there is such a clause, but denied that he planned on using it.