Steriods in Japan

Steroids have pretty much been a non-topic in Japan. While I'm sure there are those who would like an astricsk next to Cabrera's or Rhode's 55 home run records, nobody has come out and officially accused either of using steroids (although a number of foreign fans, bombarded with the steriod issue for a number of years now in the English/North American press, have).

I'm not exactly sure about what qualifies as a steroid, myself. I see VAAM and similar products at the sports section of department stores, and assume that some kids do take the products. In Olympic years, I'd heard that some domestic cold/cough medicines are forbidden by the Olympic Committee, so players selected are told to avoid them.

Otherwise, other than the recent flurry of MLB news regarding steroids, there really hasn't been much in the Japanese press over the past 10 years regarding doping. It's been a very big non-topic here. Nobody's talking about it.

I would think it would be fairly obvious to see any Japanese player that might be on steroids and would go so far as to say that if there are any Japanese players on steroids it would be very few. Is there any way to find out if there is any testing for steroids or any drug testing in Japan? I have a belief that Japanese baseball players are as good as MLB players and my main argument is going to be MLB players' steroid use. 2005 in MLB will be back to speed, pitching, and defense, a style played in Japan forever, therefore proving Japan's closing of the gap in terms of overall baseball talent.

- 2005 in MLB will be back to speed, pitching, and defense, a style played in Japan forever, therefore proving Japan's closing of the gap in terms of overall baseball talent.

First off, since steroid use was about 5% of MLB players, even a total elimination of steroids wouldn't change the game much.

Secondly, Japan has been more HR-oriented than MLB, the opposite as you claim.

HR/IP in 2004 NPB - .137
HR/IP in 2004 MLB - .126
SB/G in 2003 NPB - 1.17 (couldn't find 2004 handy)
SB/G in 2003 MLB - 1.06

As for pitching and defense, runs/game have been higher (by about half a run) in Japan lately.

You might want to rethink your ideas about how these leagues emphasize different skill sets.

I would question the figure of only 5% MLB players using steriods. Given the lax enforcement regime that used to exist, the level is almost certainly much higher.

In Japan steriod use would likely be frowned on as causing embarassment to the team, and as such a no-no. Furthermore, the Japanese press and weekly magazines would dig up any whiff of scandal (witness the recent Darvish smoking incident). That doesn't mean that steriods don't exist in Japanese baseball, just that it is extremely unlikely that they do.

- I would question the figure of only 5% MLB players using steriods. Given the lax enforcement regime that used to exist, the level is almost certainly much higher.

Well, last year was the first year MLB tested for steroids and between 5 and 7% of players tested positive. This is the only real statistical proof we have. I find it much more believable than wild claims by [the likes of] Jose Canseco and [...] Ken Caminiti.

[Edited by Admin: Let's try to remain civil. I've seen enough of these conversations degenerate into flame wars and name calling. This thread isn't about the steroid debate in MLB. Use MLB as an example for what Japan should or shouldn't do, but let's try to tie this in to Japan.]

Well, steroid testing just started in MLB and I don't know where the 5% came from. Where did you find this statistic?] As you claim, totally elimination of steroids might not change the game much, that remains to be seen.

This is only my idea of the style of baseball that will be played in MLB next year, and I may be wrong. But I also think each team has a different approach on the way they want to manufacture runs, and more MLB teams are moving toward the speed, pitching, and defense strategy.

I also don't think you can classify a league as a whole with one playing philosophy and use league statistics to justify it. The league does not emphasize different skill sets, players and teams do. I'm not surprised to see the stats on SB/G higher in Japan, but I'm surprised to see the HR/IP higher. One question though, how many foreign player home runs are factored into this statistic?

- Well, steroid testing just started in MLB and I don't know where the 5% came from.

Well, it was pretty widely reported. But there is a misconception in that the 5% positives were not of the "players" but of "players tested" which is a different thing altogether. Also, some players were tested repeatedly. Plus, it didn't test for THG, which was "undetectable" at that time. Basically, it was a pretty lax test.

In Japanese baseball, my view is that the fact that we sent a more or less all-star team of our best players to the Olympics and didn't get disqualified seems like fairly strong evidence that steroid abusers are fairly rare here.

This is a very good topic.

There are two names often heard when one talks of steroids among Japanese baseball with Japanese writers or baseball people. I won't repeat them for sake of not accusing people without evidence. The talk centers around guys whose muscles started balooning out of their skin at a late age and who have, despite their intense off-season workouts, become more injury-prone rather than less.

I asked one young star, Akinori Iwamura of the Swallows, about this and he thought that steroid usage here was more common a few years ago than now, because now the image issue is very serious and being caught would reflect even more negatively on one's team. He said the users would likely be older guys who need the extra muscle that just weight training won't do for them at their age.

Mr. Allen, thank you for the insight. I feel vindicated. Your comments don't necessarily mean that Japanese players are on the juice for sure, but the fact that these rumors are out there means that there is a chance that some Japanese players are on the juice. And since this comes from a credible source like yourself, I feel like people will finally start to take my opinions seriously.

There are some posters here that are sure that steroids don't exist. They made some good points and we had a good argument going, but the bottom line is they believe that steroids don't exist in Japan at all.

I recently talked to a friend of mine who works out fanatically (and is really cut and used to work out at Clark Hatch in Roppongi) if he thought Kiyohara was on the juice and he replied that Kiyo could've bulked up like that naturally. So maybe Kiyo isn't juiced. He said he's seen Kiyo work out at Clark Hatch with Kevin Yamasaki, but that he didn't lift as much as he thought he would. At the same time he added that steroids are readliy available here and that most bodybuilders here in Japan are juicing.

- ... but the bottom line is they believe that steroids don't exist in Japan at all.

The fact still is that Japan has a 0% tolerance for drugs, and if you're caught using them you are ashamed and it's a negative impact, like Jim pointed out above. When one of the most famous instances with Dick Davis was arrested, he was released by the Kintestu Buffaloes.

- At the same time he added that steroids are readliy available here and that most bodybuilders here in Japan are juicing.

Again, I find your claim very unreliable that a certain person has such a high knowledge of steroid use in the world of Japanese sports. The question is, how does he know or is he making an exageration (which is very likely)?

Dick Davis' case was an aberration. I guarantee you that baseball players are smoking pot in 2005 just like they were in 1986 or '87. Just because a country has a 0% tolerance for drugs doesn't mean that drugs don't exist. High school students in Japan are using marijuana as we speak, for crying out loud. How do I know this? Because I went to an international school here in Tokyo and guys were smoking pot left and right.

Do you really believe that drugs like marijuana and steroids don't exist in Japan? It's time to face reality. Sure, my friend may not know for sure if steroids exists in Japan, but if you work out as much as he does for as many years as he does you get a good idea of how a body reacts to weight lifting.

The fact is, the rumors about supposed steroid use by Japanese players are out there. I don't think we should just assume that no one in Japan takes drugs or performance enhancing drugs just because the country is strict about enforcing it's anti-drug laws.

There were people in the U.S. who actually believed that Mark McGwire was as clean as a whistle until his testimony before Congress. I don't think we can rule out anything or dismiss anything just because a country supposedly has strict laws. The fact is, you can go to Roppongi and score pot, ecstasy, speed, and even cocaine if you know the right people.

- High school students in Japan are using marijuana as we speak, for crying out loud. How do I know this? Because I went to an international school here in Tokyo and guys were smoking pot left and right.

One school also doesn't define if drug use is rampant among Japanese high school students. Second, you said you went to a international high school. As much as I don't mean to be ingorant, that most likely explains that. Also, contrary to what you say, drug use is not as rampant as you say in Japan. I'm not saying drug use isn't present in Japan, but it's very low, and steroid use is frowned on in Japan due to the 0% tolerance to it. [Drug Abuse Violations - Web-Japan.org]

That's true, and that's a good point - one school doesn't mean anything. But at the same time, I know that my friends would get together with guys from another international school and get high with them.

Also, I spent some time at "raves" back in the early 1990s in Tokyo where scoring ecstasy was as easy as ordering a beer at a bar. Drug use might not be rampant in Japan, but drugs can be fairly easily obtained if you go to the right places and know the right people.

I know how strict the drug laws are in Japan, but people still obtain drugs and use them - take a look at repeat offenders like former entertainer Masashi Tashiro. He repeatedly gets busted for heroin but he continues to get the stuff and continues to use and abuse.

You read about police officers in Japan who sometimes get arrested for marijuana or heroin possesion, so although drug use might not be prevalent, it's probably more common than you think. That's why I think we shouldn't just assume that steroid use is non-existent in Japan. It might not be a serious problem, but the stuff is probably around and some people are probably on it.

Two possible suspects are not a major problem and are not necessarily proof that steroid abuse exists in Japanese baseball. Now these two may take steroids but they may not.

The evidence relating to injury is not actually evidence at all. The older you get the more time you need to recover from exertion. If you train hard and continue to tune your body up, you can reduce your recovery rate and increase your strength. But your body has limits, and if you reach these limits you become very injury prone. The older you get, the lower these limits become, and an intensive off season training program is actually likely to increase your risk of injury even more.

Turning to steroid abuse, the establishment has a zero tolerance for this sort of thing, so anything like MLB abuse would be impossible. Any steroid abuse in Japanese baseball would have to be very secret as the management would be ruthless and draconian in dealing with it. As Jim Allen reported Iwamura saying, pressure from letting the team down is even more intense now as well, and this would be a very big block on anyone wanting to abuse steroids.

The culture is very different here in Japan, and any senior player caught taking steroids would be totally disgraced, and I cannot stress how serious this would be seen in Japanese society.

I am not one who believes that steroids do not exist in Japan. In body building and weight lifting they are probably common. But Japanese baseball is old fashioned and very conservative. I do not believe that steriods are used by Japanese baseball players, but am prepared to accept that I might be wrong on this. However, if it exists it is very, very rare, and I still think that you may be too willing to judge Japanese baseball by American and other sport standards.

Christopher, I respect your opinion and I agree with you. I don't think steroid abuse does exist in Japanese baseball. I actually never said that. I just believe that there probably are a few (and very few at that) players in Japan who were or are on the juice, but at the same time I really doubt that it's rampant like it was in MLB in the mid to late '90s. The point I wanted to make was that I just think it's foolish to assume that things like steroids and marijuana don't exist at all in Japan.

I hate to speculate, but I get the feeling that the two possible suspects that Mr. Allen mentioned are the names that I've mentioned before on this message board.

Steroids do exist in Japan and in Pro Yakyu, it is foolish to believe otherwise. As long as there is a shot at glory this is a risk that some will take. As long as no testing is done for this problem it will definitly exist. You can't be blind and just wish it away. And as a former player I've heard many more rumors about many more players than just "the two." I choose to believe that there is a certain amount of truth to any rumor, and in this case (steroids) it's pretty evident in some cases. Also you'd be surprised at how easily some people will look the other way as they benefit from someone else (Selig, Fehr)!

I am always sceptical about rumours as these can grow in the telling (like fish stories). They can contain a kernel of truth like you say, but equally can be malicious and due to jealousy. The culture in Pro Yakyu is very much anti-steroid, particularly in regard to the management. Japanese management does not look the other way in this respect - corruption and links with dubious elements maybe, but drugs, no. You have to understand how feudal Japanese baseball management is to see why steroids are not a problem and why they would not look the other way.

What is clear from this discussion is that steroids are a very minor problem in Japanese baseball and that a small minority of Japanese baseball players may possibly take steroids. Japanese values are different to American values and I think you are judging Japan by what Americans would think. This is dangerous as it can lead to misconceptions. If you are able to substantiate these rumours with firm evidence I would certainly listen, but nothing I have read or heard leads me to believe that this evidence exists.

As I have mentioned in other posts on this topic - the supposed evidence for steroid use can be explained by mundane explanations. The sports writers I know confirm this and discount the rumours. Until evidence can be presented we must treat the rumours as what they are - rumours without any foundation. As you will have noted from Jim's post, pressure from the team (the most important influence in a Japanese player's career) is very much anti-steroid. This will play a more important role in any decision than a desire for glory.

I guess ignorance is bliss? Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. I'm pretty sure I know the the way things work there (as I said previously, I played there and watched and listened to the things going on there). I have no reason to give you proof, that is not my goal here (a la Canseco). I just want you to wise up! It's not fantasyland, it's Japan, and just as easily infiltrated by steroids as anywhere else in the world. Hence the Olympic drug policies! It's not just an American problem.

Well, this mystery guest has basically confirmed what I've been saying all along. I just wouldn't be surprised to hear that some Japanese players are on the juice.

I think Christopher is right about some things, but I think his point about disgracing your team is a bit off. Sure, there might be pressure from the team and from society that would dissuade you from using steroids, but what about the pressure to perform and put up numbers to save your job so that you can feed your family? Every year, fringe players get cut (case in point: Ben Grieve, recently released by the Pirates - Grieve was mentioned in Canseco's book as a player who would benefit from steroid use), so in order to put up numbers to save your job or to get a raise you might think long and hard about using some performance-enhancers.

Just because it's illegal and just because it would make you and your team look bad if you were caught doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will follow the rules of society. Eveyone's morals aren't the same. Sometimes it's not even about morals. I think some players just need an extra edge in order to save their jobs.

- ... but I think his point about disgracing your team is a bit off.

No, players in Japan are swayed away from using steroids due to what it is (a disgrace to the team). It would bring a negative attitude to the team, and the way management in the NPB run the teams.

- ... but what about the pressure to perform and put up numbers to save your job so that you can feed your family?

Also, this hasn't been a problem because the status quo in Japan has been that using steroids would bring shame to the player and the team.

- ... case in point: Ben Grieve, recently released by the Pirates - Grieve was mentioned in Canseco's book as a player who would benefit from steroid use ...

Canseco, one who isn't a credible person to believe. He published his book because he, for some reason, has a vendetta against Major League Baseball. He would say Babe Ruth did steroids. Sometimes you shouldn't believe everything that is written, and then try to say that Japan has steroids because of Jose Canseco's book.

- Just because it's illegal and just because it would make you and your team look bad if you were caught doesn't necessarily mean that everyone will follow the rules of society. Eveyone's morals aren't the same. Sometimes it's not even about morals.

Believe it or not, morality has a high influence on what people will do. Morality makes people think of what is right and wrong, and so does the culture you live in. These are basic sociological facts.

Now let's not put words into my mouth. First of all, I never said that Japan has steroids because of Jose Canseco's book. That's not what I was saying. The point I was trying to make was that there are some players (like Ben Grieve) who don't quite have what it takes to have a long and successful career and who need an extra edge in order to stay in the game at the top level. If it's a choice between getting cut and being out of a job or taking a performance-enhancing drug (like steroids or amphetamines) in order to keep your job, then it's a tough decision to make.

Like I said before, players in Japan might be swayed to stay away from steroids or marijuana due to pressure from the team, but that doesn't mean that everyone follows those rules. There are going to be some players, both foreign and Japanese, that are going to smoke pot discreetly and maybe take steroids. There are some bad apples in every society (or every team).

The old adage in baseball is, "If you don't get caught, it's not cheating." They mentioned that on SportsCenter last night. Baseball has had cheaters for years. In the famous book "Ball Four," Jim Bouton wrote that half of baseball took amphetamines. Gaylord Perry threw spitters, Sosa used a corked bat, etc. The list goes on and on.

Just because Japanese society frowns upon those cheating and breaking the law, it doesn't mean that no one is breaking the law. If that was the case, then Japan wouldn't have any prisons. I'm Japanese and I like Japan, but I'm not naive enough to think that Japan is a flawless country and that all Japanese follow the rules of society just because doing otherwise would disgrace your family or team.

I don't think anybody could have said it any better that how you have put it, Kenny.

Mr. Brooks seems to think that we live in a perfect world where people won't try to cheat for the advantage, even if they know that getting caught is unlikely.

I'll be honest, and please don't consider me a "troll" for being so intense in my post, but it seems like Mr. Brooks doesn't have a grasp of reality.

Yes, Japanese culture and society plays a role in steroid use in Japan. But that is not to say that they don't happen just because of cultural reasons. Not steroids, but any sort of criminal act will bring down the name of the team. Was ex-Yomiuri catcher Sugiyama thinking about his team when he sexually harrassed a girl a couple years ago? Did Kiyohara think about the Giants before he apparently got involved with the yakuza? This might be a rumor, but the point is that baseball players are humans. Yes, even the Japanese baseball players. They're humans too. If some of them think that they can have the advantage and not get caught in the process, they will go and take that advantage.

To assume otherwise is to think that humans are perfect and have super great morals and will never do anything wrong. And, seriously, that's just plain stupid, naive, and crazy.

- ... but that doesn't mean that everyone follows those rules.

Of course it doesn't. There's always going to be people who break the law. But right now these instances are few and far between due to the status quo that exists in Japan.

- ... but I'm not naive enough to think that Japan is a flawless country and that all Japanese follow the rules of society

Neither am I. I am well aware that there's crime in Japan, and I not denying that. What I'm saying is that steroids and drug use aren't a major problem in the NPB and Japanese society in general.

- Mr. Brooks seems to think that we live in a perfect world where people won't try to cheat for the advantage

Some people will always try to go against the status quo, but at this time these instances are few and far between.

- To assume otherwise is to think that humans are perfect and have super great morals and will never do anything wrong. And, seriously, that's just plain stupid, naive, and crazy.

I never said humans are perfect and have perfect morals. I said morality plays a high importance in what people think are wrong and right. Most people have good morals while some people don't have any at all.

This is probably my last post on this topic. Right now it's obvious that Mr. Brooks and I are far apart on this issue. I agree to disagree about this.

- People who break the law are few and far between...

Say what? Do you ever read the newspaper? Go to Mainichi Shinbun everyday and see what new crimes have occurred in Japan. In fact, if you go there now you have a story about a government official who was arrested for filming up school girls' skirts, and you also have a story about a university student who was arrested for possession of hash, etc. There is defnitely a fair share of crimes in Japan, just like there is in any other society.

I'm not trying to insult you, but it sounds like you're 80 years old. Either that or you were born yesterday. I'm 32 years old, so I've seen and heard about drug use in Japan and, like I said before, it's more common than you think.

At the end of his post, Mr. Brooks says, "Most people have good morals while some people don't have any at all." Could it be possible that there are some players in NPB that don't have any morals at all? Maybe those players are the ones who are using drugs-recreational or performance-enhancing.

If you're going to try and put thoughts into readers' heads and say that a good number of Japanese players are on steroids, then at least be man enough to leave a name. That "I'm a former player. I know so much more about baseball than you fans. Worship the ground I walk on." routine gets no respect around here. Make with a name or just stay quiet, because you could be an 11 year old skateboarder for all we know. Your word means nothing without proof.

First off, the last post wasn't me! Save your attitude for someone who cares. I do not have to put a name on this as that is my choice. I don't want to make a big deal of this and just wanted to enlighten some foolhardy fans. I don't believe I ever said "a good number of Japanese players were on steroids"! I have had Japanese players ask me if I knew how to get steroids! I also don't recall asking you to worship the ground I walk on either. If you would like to talk, I'm here, but at least show me the same respect that you would show a non player.

"Proof" is just a word. You believe what you believe and that's all there is to it! I'm not looking to draw any extra attention from this. It happens! you can believe it or not, that's up to you? And, yes, I used to skate a lot!

Dear Guest,

I have been off-line for a while and coming back have had a chance to read your later posts, so my apologies for not replying earlier.

Quite simply put, you are making accusations without any evidence or even names. Heresay or personal opinion is not evidence - you have presented nothing but your belief (which may or may not be true) that steroids exist in abundance. Name names or do keep quiet - present your case. However, do not try to drag Japanese baseball down to MLB level unless you can clearly prove it. I will accept what you say if you can present me with evidence. Please remember you made some serious allegations - if you are challenged, at least try to back them up. A statement that "it happens" is not enough - identify yourself and how you know.

Westbaystars-san,

I used to drink VAAM all the time during my workouts back when I lived in Japan. I didn't realize it was any kind of performance enhancing product. Do you have any details on it?

Incidentally, I was in the best shape of my life while I was living in Japan. I gave credit to a generally healthier diet, plus more walking and bicycling in Japan, as opposed to a fattier diet and more time in cars in America. Maybe VAAM had something to do with it as well.

Thanks in advance.

OK. It looks like I'm going to have to do more research before saying some things I know nothing about - like steroids. As I said, I don't know exactly what constitutes a "steroid." I always thought, rightly or wrongly, that those high protein body building powders in the back of comic books were steroids. In the sports sections of department stores, VAAM looks like those same body building protein mixes.

However, heading over to the VAAM web site (in Japanese), it's a set of products from Meiji Dairy that are high in amino acids meant to break down body fat when consumed along with exercise. I grossly mis-represented the VAAM products. To emphisise how wrong my idea of VAAM was, VAAM is a member of the Japan Anti-Doping Association (JADA). I think I'll pick some up on next trip to Daiei to supplement softball practice this coming weekend.

As for diet in North America, quantity is another factor. The last time I was in the States, about five years ago, I had a very hard time eating everything that was served at restaurants. It drove me crazy when I first came to Japan how small meals were when eating out. Now the small portions are the norm. I even find a small sized drink satisfying, at least, in the winter.

Thanks for the info, Westbaystars-san. I should have checked out the VAAM website on my own.

One thing about VAAM was that it made me sweat like a pig whenever I drank it while working out. In that sense, it seemed to have a bigger effect on me than a Pocari Sweat or whatever. I definitely recommend VAAM, especially the gel, but I eventually got away from sports drinks all together. The sugars in them got sticky in my mouth, and I would wind up needing more water - which kind of defeated the purpose of sports drinks.

Still VAAM is good stuff. I hope you like it.

With all of this flurry about drugs, Jim Allen of the Daily Yomiuri writes about what Japan's major drug problem in baseball is: Nicotine.

[Full Story - The Daily Yomiuri]

Jim Allen is a fine writer of NPB in English, but the nicotine article was a total cop out. I would have loved to see something on steroids in Japan, but nicotine? C'mon. Everyone knows cigarettes kill. Darvish may be a minor by Japanese law, but he's a grown man in my mind, and if pachinko and Mild Sevens float his boat, than so be it. It's the kid's career, and if Nippon Ham can't set him straight on their own, then that's their loss.

Japan's smoking laws are changing as we speak, and I imagine in the near future it won't be anywhere near as bad as it is now (well, for non smokers. I smoke.)

Come on, Jim, let's save that garbage for the Japan Times.

Nicotine is perhaps more prevalent in Japanese baseball than steroids. The latter seem to be very rare if not non-existant. Nicotine represents a problem as a lot of children and teenagers follow baseball. Children and teenagers do not have the critical facilities to make a reasoned choice on smoking. They see their heros smoking and they want to follow their example. Darvish's behaviour was not that of a grown man but of a teenager, and is not a good example for other teenagers.

I re-read Jim's article and found that this one was actually well argued and he had thought through the consequences.

I agree with Christopher regarding the quality of Jim Allen's article - it was a whole lot better than what he normally comes up with.

However, I do think the reaction to Darvish's behavior has been somewhat overblown. It reminds me of the furor over Matsuzaka's non-payment of parking fines a few years ago, although in that case it was hard to know the true nature of the scandal - was it because he broke the law, or whether he had been visiting his girlfriend when he should have been someplace else, or whether it was really that he allowed a Seibu employee to claim the fines were his? (In any other country, you'd just pay the fines, but in Japan, you've got to go down to the police station and apologize in person.)

Frankly I'm not convinced that baseball players should be singled out for criticism for puffing away on a few cigarettes. As Jim rightly points out, the Japanese government owns a major stake in the tobacco monopoly JT - what sort of example does that set? And surely the smoking fathers, brothers, and uncles of Japan have some influence on their impressionable younger family members.

I sometimes get fed up with the line that kids can't always make decisions for themselves. Younger kids need more guidance, sure, but teenagers, given the right information, can often work things out for themselves. I remember that at my high school in Australia in the late '70s, we were allowed to smoke on school premises (it was a senior high school, only two grades, ages 17/18). The rationale was that we were not kids anymore, and it was about time we made our own choices. Of course we were given all the information to make the choice, including the latest anti-smoking literature, and we could attend lectures and discussions on the various aspects of the issue. Obviously we were prodded in a particular direction, but the decision was still ours to make.

The problem in Japan is that the legal smoking age is set way too high (20), and as a result Darvish broke the law, which for me is the main problem here. But as far as his role in influencing kids to smoke is concerned, well, let's hold the rest of society to the same standards, and only then can we criticize Darvish.

It was the second time that he was taken a picture smoking and still he is a high school student. Simply put, he is too careless. But it is not as big an issue as steroid in MLB.

- But as far as his role in influencing kids to smoke is concerned, well, let's hold the rest of society to the same standards, and only then can we criticize Darvish.

We tend to hold our heros to higher standards than we apply to ourselves. I would say that kids are more likely to follow the example of a sporting hero than their relatives, especially one who is nearer to them in age. Visibility is also an important factor - the more visible you are the more influence you may have. Darvish is caught in this trap - he is expected to behave like a paragon of virtue (well maybe not that extreme), but he also has the critical abilities of an average teenager, and posssibly less information than Mijow had in the 1970s. Teenagers tend to respond more to peer pressure and influences than to factual information, and this also needs to be taken into account with the reaction to the Darvish business.

Of course you're right about the trap Darvish finds himself in, but it's interesting to compare his behavior with that of Tae Satoya, the Olympic moguls skier, who apparently went wild at a Roppongi nightclub last month and was suspended from her job at Fuji TV for a grand total of five days. [Link - Japan Today]

I think I'd much prefer Darvish as role model for my child than this little vixen. (Read the article and you'll know what I mean.) If smoking a cigarette or two is the worst Darvish can manage, he really is a paragon of virtue by comparison!

I just finished reading Jose Canseco's book and he basically names major leaguers who, to his knowledge, are on steroids and he also names players that he suspects are on the juice.

Right after I read the book, I was watching Hodo Station (10 pm weekdays on TV Asahi) and it had a special on the KK boys, Kuwata and Kiyohara. I don't know about you, but after seeing footage from his high school days and his early days with the Lions, it seems like Kiyohara's body underwent a suspicious transformation in the late '90s.

We all know that Kiyohara is a big MLB fan as he emulates Sosa's chest thump and things like that, so it could be that Kiyohara saw the '98 home run chase between McGwire and Sosa and decided to bulk up like those two.

However, this is purely speculation on my part since I have not heard any mention of steroid use by Kiyohara in the Japanese press, although the Japanese press, in my opinion, has been slow to tackle the steroid issue.

I'm not sure if he's on anything, but Alex Cabrera sure does have a Canseco-type build.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were a number of Japanese players and a number of foreign players in Japan that are using steroids. I just wish the Japanese press would do some research and cover the issue the way the American press has done.

- I just finished reading Jose Canseco's book and he basically names major leaguers who, to his knowledge, are on steroids and he also names players that he suspects are on the juice.

Not to get off topic, but Canseco's claims don't hold any revelance at all. Canseco is on a witch hunt because he thinks baseball owes him something.

- It wouldn't surprise me if there were a number of Japanese players and a number of foreign players in Japan that are using steroids.

It would susprise me because the Japanese take a 0% tolerance to this kind of stuff. Former Kintestu Buffaloes player Dick Davis found this out when he was arrested for drug use.

As I mentioned before, it is unlikely that Japanese players take steroids, especially Kiyohara. He is very much in the public eye and the Japanese press would certainly dig this up. One only has to look at the microscopic attention paid to the stars in the papers. For example, a row the pitcher Shimoyanagi had with a neighbor over his dog merited an article [front page on several sports dailies].

The reason the Japanese press haven't covered this is that it isn't a problem, and as John said, the Japanese establishment has a zero tolerance for this sort of thing.

Actually, Dick Davis only got caught with pot (or hash) because he was careless or someone who had a vendetta against him tipped off the police. I know of foreign professional athletes in Japan who smoke pot or hash but haven't been caught - they all go to Roppongi where they can find someone who'll supply them with the stuff. I'm almost certain that foreign baseball players in Japan right now are smoking pot. The Dick Davis arrest was an aberration in my opinion.

Also, in regards to Kiyohara, he has a personal trainer (and a suspicious one at that IMHO) in "Kevin" Yamasaki. Why a normal Japanese guy is named Kevin is beyond me, but that's a different story altogether. This trainer always wears sunglasses, even at night and even indoors, and he also wears a black baseball cap. He looks more like a bank robber than a personal trainer. This guy has connections in the U.S. Kiyo started to look like a professional wrestler or bodybuilder after he started working out under this guy's supervision.

I don't think we should bury our heads in the sand. I've talked to professional Japanese athletes who work out everyday with weights, and they all think Kiyohara is juiced. Some of them even point to the fact that Kiyo started getting injured regularly after he started bulking up.

Does this mean that Kiyo is on steroids? No. But at the same time I think it's time that Japanese baseball should start looking into the steroid issue before it becomes a problem.

- [...] because he was careless or someone who had a vendetta against him tipped off the police.

Dick Davis got caught because they raided his hotel room, and Davis was released by the Buffaloes. This shows that there is a 0% tolerance for drugs in Japan, and those include steroids.

- I've talked to professional Japanese athletes who work out everyday with weights, and they all think Kiyohara is juiced.

What Japanese athletes told you this? Because I find your claim very unrealistic when you say that so-and-so "told me they think Kiyohara is juiced."

Also, there is no coverage of steroids in Japan, because there is a 0% tolerance for it. It doesn't exist.

Steroids don't exist in Japan? How can you be so sure? Have you ever seen professional wrestlers and bodybuilders in Japan? Do you really think they bulked up like The Incredible Hulk naturally?

The athletes I talked to play soccer and basketball. I know they might not lift weights as intensely as football players or players in other sports, but they do lift weights almost everyday, so I think they have a good idea of how much weight training it takes to get totally ripped and cut like Kiyohara.

In my opinion, Kiyo's body went through a McGwire-like transformation. They were both always tall, but they were skinny when they first came up in pro ball. Then after a few years in pro ball, they ended up becoming huge.

There might be a 0% tolerance for drugs in Japan, but that doesn't mean drugs don't exist. Do you believe that no player in NPB since Davis has smoked pot? I can guarantee you that current foreign players in NPB are using marijuana right now. I can almost guarantee that some Japanese players are using marijuana also.

You mention you know of foreign professional atheletes who smoke pot in Japan. Do you mean baseball players? The phrase "almost certain" you use later is not quite the same, and in referring to foreign baseball players, do you mean all of them or some of them?

You say Kiyohara has a personal trainer named Kevin who wears sunglasses and seems to like the gangster look (a lot of young Japanese do). This in itself does not constitute evidence but speculation based on very flimsy grounds.

To my mind Kiyohara is big because he is fat - he is getting older. His career record does not demonstrate any significant improvement that could be attributed to steroids, and his injuries are more likely to be due to over-training.

There is an outside possibility that you are correct, but as I said before, it is extremely unlikely. If Kiyohara was on steroids I would have expected him to pass Oh's HR record, and he hasn't even come near it. The thing to remember is that the Japanese baseball establishment does not tolerate this sort of thing (it is extremely old-fashioned and conservative - perhaps more than you realise).

As I also mentioned before that the Japanese press would have dug any steriod abuse up with relish if it was the case. The fact that they have not done so is very indicative of the non-existence of the problem. American practices do not always translate to other countries, and just because America is lax and lazy in enforcement does not mean that Japan is.

FWIW, Kevin Yamazaki is a very famous personal trainer, having worked with Chiyono-Taikai (sumo), Masato (K-1), and Akira Maeda (Professional Wrestling) among others. He's actually in his late 40s so that "look" is just part of his thing. He spent a lot of time in the States, so maybe that's his idea of "westernization." It's not unthinkable for that generation.

Anyway, his methods are based on rigorous training and a controlled diet that features a ton of low-fat protein sources (chicken breasts).

Now, why Kiyohara would find a personal trainer who apparently specializes in combat sports is beyond me, but I would actually be very surprised if steroids were a big part of his program.

Now Kiyohara is an extremely old-school Japanese ballplayer. He was famous for being a party animal in Roppongi, and frequented the "clubs" there (not the dancing clubs, the more expensive, quiet types with hostesses). He also did a lot of weights from a very early period. Take his lifestyle and his workout regimen, multiply that by 20 years, and you will very easily get an overweight, bulked up athlete without having to rely overly on steroids.

First of all, the foreign professional athletes that I know who smoke pot in Japan are not baseball players. But if foreign players (in a mainstream sport I might add) in Japan are using marijuana, I'm pretty sure that the foreign players in other sports are getting stoned as well. Obviously, I don't mean all of foreign baseball players smoke pot. It could be a few, or it could be a lot, but I'm pretty sure that you will find foreign baseball players in Japan who smoke pot.

OK, to pass judgement on Kevin for his looks is unfair - I admit that. But I am suspicious of this guy. He doesn't look like your typical physical trainer. BTW, the "gangster look" (or bank robber look) doesn't work on him because he's not young. He's in his mid to late 40s.

I disagree with you when you say that Kiyo is fat. I don't think he is fat. Since he started working out with that guy Kevin he's decreased his level of body fat. He just got big. If he was fat, he would have a big beer gut like Cecil Fielder or Boomer Wells, but he doesn't.

I believe that Kiyo would've broken Oh's record also had he stayed injury-free. He had some freak injuries for sure, but his ever-growing list of injuries makes me suspicious.

I also don't agree with you regarding the Japanese press failing to dig up the steroid issue. Steroids in baseball is still relatively new - it's a topic that wasn't even discussed by the American media in 1998, even when McGwire and Sosa were blasting all those home runs. In his book Canseco says that only one writer, Tom Boswell in 1988, hinted that Canseco was on steroids, but other than Boswell no one ever mentioned it.

You could be right though - steroids might not exist in Japan, but I find that possibility highly unlikely. Just look at the guys on the pro wrestling circuit or some of these bodybuilders. I really don't think these guys bulked up naturally.

I hate to say it, but your supposition that because foreign players in another mainstream sport use marijuana, foreign baseball players must be using it does not follow. Just because something happens in one sport does not mean that it happens in another. Now it may happen, but if it does the player keeps it very secret. A team will dump a foreign player without hesitation if they find them abusing drugs - there is no mercy shown for other perceived offences like injuries.

As for Kevin - some older people try to look younger (mutton dressed as lamb) and this is no reason to suspect him. The Japanese trainer Duke does not look like a typical trainer and no-one suspects him of steroid abuse.

I don't want to say any more about Kiyohara's size as Nao dealt with that point perfectly. However, with regard to injuries - a chain of injuries is not a rare event. I used to know a very talented rugby player called David Pears. He was good enough to play fly-half for England but had a series of injuries which eventually led to him retiring from the game. These were due to training - he never took steroids. The point I am making here is that training is the more likely explanation for these injuries. Some players are more injury prone than others. If you need an example from Japanese baseball take a look at Kataoka. As you get older you need more time to recover, and if you don't allow yourself this time you become more injury prone. Japanese players train very hard and the more likely explanation is that Kiyohara is training even harder to keep up.

As for breaking Oh's record, he was never near it even with Seibu.

Finally a few comments about the press. I am afraid the American press is not particularly perceptive or active. I am convinced that they knew about the use of steroids in MLB and said nothing. Fortunately other countries have a more active press and so scandals are found out quicker. The Japanese press is active and relentless. If they haven't reported a problem with steroids (and Kiyohara using steriods would be an enormous story) then it isn't there.

It might be that you are correct about steroids but the fact that there are more mundane explanations which fit the facts better lead me to suspect that this is not the case. As I mentioned in my previous post, MLB is dreadfully slack with regard to drug testing, but I should add other countries aren't. Please do not judge them by American standards but their own.

Not to interrupt the current discussion about steroids, but the Yomiuri Shimbun is reporting that NPB will indeed be testing for performance enhancing drugs, and hopes to implement testing as early as this season. Here's the article on Nifty Sports via Yomiuri Shimbun (Japanese only).

One part that kind of bothers me about that article is a quote from the NPB Commissioner Yasuchika Negoro, "I think Japanese players are alright, but there are foreign players as well. It has a connection with the Olympics, and this is a problem we have to grapple with." Why did he have to mention the foreign players? Just because some of them have had MLB playing experience?

- One part that kind of bothers me about that article is a quote from the NPB Commissioner Yasuchika Negoro, "I think Japanese players are alright, but there are foreign players as well. [...]"

It is standard Japanese prejudice - though the MLB does have an unenviable record. If you look at reports on crime rates the authorities and newspapers in Japan tend to highlight crimes commited by foreigners even if the crime rate rise among Japanese is higher. This is the same sort of thing.

Christopher, you make some good points. I agree with you that some players are just injury-prone. No one really suspects Ken Griffey Jr. of taking steroids since he was hitting tons of homers before the big steroid boom, but he's a guy that gets injured every year. Maybe Kiyohara is just injury-prone.

About Oh's record - I was referring to Oh's all-time HR record of 868. Kiyo hit over 30 HRs as an 18 year old rookie. Had he hit 40+ HRs over the next 20 years, he would've come darn close to 868. The fact that he was playing at tiny Seibu Stadium would've really helped him come close to the record.

Duke Saraie is not really a trainer - he's more of a "walking" expert, but I do see your point.

Finally, the foreign players who do use marijuana obviously do it discreetly. It's not like they talk openly about it. I learned about their usage through a Japanese player who has smoked with them. I had suspected it, but until the Japanese player told me I didn't know for sure. I don't know who their suppliers are, but I do know that these foreign players like to hang out at Roppongi a lot, something that most of the foreign baseball players do. I agree that just because players in one sport do it, it doesn't automatically mean that players in another sport do it, but I'm almost certain that you will find foreign baseball players in Japan who do use marijuana. I don't really see it as a big deal though since a lot of players in the NBA, NFL, and MLB have been smoking pot for ages.

According to this article (Mainichi - in English), the charges against Satoya may be false. According to a witness they were not having sex and they are filing charges against a bouncer for assault. The bouncer has apparantly left the country.

Personally, I don't see any reason to give more weight to the story of a Roppongi club owner than to that of an Olympic medalist.

OK. This thread is deteriorating to personal attacks and defenses on personal opinion. What have we learned?

1. There are a few players who may have taken steroids.

2. There are a few players who may benefit from taking steroids.

3. Japanese players know about steroids, suspect there was use a number of years ago, but pressures from society and teams to avoid them are greater now, which are detering further abuse.

4. The Olympic anti-drug policies actually reinforce the idea that the top Pro Yakyu players are drug free, as they participated in both Sydney and Athens without mishap.

Straw-man arguements. A straw-man arguement is where one presents one fact and says that it proves something unrelated.

1. Because foreign ball players use illegal drugs in Roppongi there must be steroid abuse in Japan.

2. Because students at international schools in Japan use illegal drugs there must be steroid abuse in Japan.

3. Because there are elements in Japan who will not conform to society there must be steroid abuse in Japan.

4. Because there is steroid abuse in basketball there must be steroid abuse in Japan.

General misunderstandings:

1. Nobody has said that there is no steroid abuse, just that it is not as major a problem as in North America.

2. The concept of right and wrong are very different in Japan than their North American counterparts. One of the biggest misconceptions I hear from foreigners here is their (mis)understanding of what's right and wrong in Japan. North Americans tend to be duelists - everything must fit neetly into one of two choices: right or wrong, good or evil, "my view" or "your view." Japanese don't tend to label things good or bad, right or wrong. Japanese would rather say that something is different (which is the same Kanji as "incorrect") than wrong.

3. The "if you don't get caught it's not cheating" concept is Western. As is the entire back stabbing, double faced, win at all costs, ends justify the means thinking in the North American business and political scene. Does that mean that everyone pulls the company line? No. But it does create a system whereby peer pressure plays a greater role in keeping others in line than the "every man for himself" approach in North America. (Note, I'm not saying that the North American approach is bad, it's just different. See point #2.)

4. The rebellious youth of Japan today are not the ones becoming professional baseball players. There has been a lot of talk on this thread indicitive of the highly Hollywood influenced Japanese youth of today. With very few exceptions, Japanese who make it to the professional level undergo a great deal of personal sacrifice to get there. They aren't the ones growing up as rebels. They're the ones with the dedication to the team. (Ochiai Hiromitsu is the only exception I can think of.)

The general feeling that most people have is that steroids is not a problem in Japan. That does not mean that nobody uses or has ever used them, but that it is not a problem. Those with this belief are not going to change the minds of those who think it is a problem. Those who are trying to make this out to be a problem won't convince the other side without evidence. It is not "see no evil, hear no evil," it is the scientific method, innocent until proven guilty.

One arguement that hasn't been brought up but is worthy of investigation is the trainer connection. High schools like PL Gakuen, Yokohama High, and several others are professional baseball player factories. These high schools employ trainers on the level of professional baseball teams. These are the people who will have the biggest influence over decisions that developing ball players are going to make with regard to chemicals they put into their bodies. Player and team trainers on the professional level will be doing the same (brought up with regard to Kiyohara). If anything is going on with steroids, with or without player knowledge, these are the people who will know.

Wait a minute. I'm offended that some of my points have been categorized as "straw-man" arguments. I never said any of those 4 things listed as straw-man arguments, and I remained civil and never attacked anyone personally (at least not maliciously). I enjoy a good argument as much as the next guy, and I certainly don't like personal attacks and things like that either.

But I would like to point some things out since I think you totally misread my posts or misunderstood my points.

Point #1: I never said that becasue foreign ball players use recreational drugs (obtained in Roppongi), that there must be steroid abuse in Japan. In fact, I never said that there was steroid abuse or a steroid problem in Japan. I merely suggested that it's possible that some players might be on the juice. The Dick Davis argument led me to say that I think foreign players still use recreational drugs, but I didn't say that because of that, there must be steroid abuse in Japan.

Point #2: I never said that because international school students smoke pot, there must be steroid abuse in Japan. Mr. Brooks argued that there was a 0% tolerance for drugs in Japan, so I pointed out that although Japan has strict anti-drug laws, drugs do exist, even at the high school level.

Point #3: Again, I never said that steroid abuse exists. I pointed out that crime does exist in Japan even though others have suggested that pressure from society (or from their team) will dissuade one from committing crimes. Every society has some bad apples. Hence, I suggested that there could be some in NPB who deviate from society's rules.

Point #4: Again, no one ever said anything about there being steroid abuse in basketball. I don't know where you came up with that. I don't even think that much steroid use exists in basketball (in North America or in Japan). In fact, basketball (along with soccer) is one of the few sports where steroids might not benefit you all that much, unless you want to bulk up to matchup better with someone like Shaquille O'Neal.

I don't mind people thinking that my opinions are off the mark and that I'm nuts, but to imply that I said things that I never said disappoints me.

Kenny,

I didn't realized that all of those were your posts. But they really stood out and bothered me. (I think I got the basketball post mixed up with another one, now that you mention it.)

The reason that the first three bothered me so much is because of the association being made. You are correct, you never come out and said that one is the cause of the other. But you mention both steroids and drug abuse in your posts, setting up an association between the two that memory blurs together. The most effective use of this technique was:

1. Bush calls Bin-Ladin and his gang terrorists for their attack on 9/11.
2. Bush repeatedly calls Sadam Hussein a terrorist in related press releases.
3. 70% of Americans in one poll think that Sadam Hussein was responsible for 9/11 without Bush ever stating so.

Your posts repeatedly talk about pot and juiced players. While you do not spell out "because one then the other," the association is there, and that's what I took away from those posts. I apologize if I read too much into your posts, but knowingly or not, these are the associations you are making.

Fair enough. I understand how you feel and I apologize for reiterating the same thing over and over. I knew that the other posters and I were just going around in circles towards the end and that's why I said in my last post about the issue that it was probably my last post on the topic.

It just seemed that you were being unfair to me in particular in your "staw-man argument" point and that's why I took offense, but I'm glad we're straight now.

In a related story, Alex Sanchez of the D-Rays was suspended by MLB for 10 games for steroid use. He's a speedy outfielder who's about 5'11", 180 lbs. Now the so-called experts are saying on SportsCenter that some players use steroids to recover faster from an injury and that not all of them use steroids to get bigger. Then again, Sanchez claims he only takes stuff that he bought over-the-counter. I just wish the whole steroid issue would just go away in MLB.

With the steroid problem in Major League Baseball, it seems that Japanese baseball is feeling pressure to have their own drug testing program. Is there any truth to the rumor that there is drug testing this season in Japan? I wouldn't think steroids are very prevelant in Japan. If there isn't already a program in place, wouldn't it be too difficult to implement a program after the season has already started? What would they be tested for? Would they even know what they are being tested for?

If it is similar to the Olympics as well as the minor leagues in America, you could test positive for having ephedra, as well as many other over the counter medicines and supplements. That would be unfair for the players if it was that stringent. These players are not training for one event in the Olympics. They are entertainers. They play over 140 games, and if they are taking some kind of supplements to get them through it, then that is not a problem. But if they are taking steroids, it is.

It would be a good idea to test for steroids though, but in my opinion is that if a plan wasn't in place when the season started then this is somthing they need to put into place for next season, not this one. What players would you suspect in the league are on steroids?

Bob Bavasi nails the situation over here in a recent e-mail. Quote:

The recent baseball congressional hearings may have had some impact, though not where Congress expected. Japan baseball officials, with the blessing of the players union, are working on a drug testing program. Japan officials are acutely aware of the current MLB situation with a players union that long resisted drug testing.

Japan commissioner Yasuchika Negoro neatly summed up his view of the issue in Japan, "I think Japanese players are alright, but we also have foreign players."

I might further translate that to read: "Our Japanese players would never do drugs, but we've got to keep an eye on those foreigners."

Negoro's comments are uncalled for, but not surprising as Japanese politicians have been saying things like that for years. Negoro may not be a politician, but he's obviously very old-fashioned and out of touch with reality, just like many politicians in Japan.

On a related note, I read today [Link - KansasCity.com] that former Orix outfielder (I think the year was 2000) Jon Nunnally was one of the 38 minor-leaguers in the U.S. who were suspended this past week for testing positive for steroids.

After Iriki was caught using PED and suspended 50 games, it's two years in a row that Japanese players have been suspended by the anti-doping policy of MLB. Last year I heard NPB decided to do test on their players. Has there been any more news?

Thanks.

No news as yet. The policy is due to be introduced sometime in the future, but no announcements have been made. There doesn't seem to be much of a sense of urgency, perhaps founded on a belief that the problem is not serious for NPB unlike MLB.