Gyroball/Shuuto/
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Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest: kappa | Posted: Apr 26, 2006 6:25 PM
]
I think gyroball is a gyrospin ball.
Matsuzaka's slider is thought to be nearly a gyrospin ball, not his fastball.
I watched the TV program where an amateur who can pitch the gyroball played against Shinjiro Hiyama (Hanshin Tigers). His fastball was a gyrospin ball.
Matsuzaka's slider is thought to be nearly a gyrospin ball, not his fastball.
I watched the TV program where an amateur who can pitch the gyroball played against Shinjiro Hiyama (Hanshin Tigers). His fastball was a gyrospin ball.
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest: Shini | Posted: Apr 26, 2006 11:59 PM
]
I think some people in Japan calls Matsuzaka's slider as a "gyroslider."
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Apr 27, 2006 11:03 PM
]
This site [Everything2.com] has a somewhat helpful article, though I don't know how accurate it is. It looks to be one of those any-one-can-edit sites.
Shuutu (shootball) = reverse tailing fastball (slight cutter)? From fastball average of 90, 87-89 MPH?
I think I get that a little, I don't really get the fastball speed 3 foot break part with the "gyroball," and the article I don't think says which direction it breaks. Also, if something is traveling in a bullet (rifled-barrel spin) pattern (smooth-bore muskets do NOT create this pattern, hence their primitive inaccuracy, thank you historical fiction novels) it would go incurably straight and powerful, also pin point accurate. It would look different from a fastball because a fastball does break, thus why a very hard fastball appears to rise, because it breaks less quickly. The bullet-ball would be swung under very consistently, because it would appear to rise, or in other words, fail to break. You could also use it as a backdoor pitch to both lefties and righties because if you throw it down, to the corners, it would not break and the batter would assume from experience that it would fall below the strike zone, but it could really stay just about anywhere up to the middle of the strike zone.
It would not have a three foot break if it really had a bullet motion. It would have absolutely no break. The only thing it would break would be bats, as it would be incredibly hard, swinging on it would be ineffective, and you'd get a lot of infield pop ups. You could only really get a infield hit off of a good one.
So I don't get the bullet spin part. Bullets don't break or knuckle, like baseballs or smoothbore pellets. It would basically just be the sensation of a rising fastball on steroids, growth hormone, and greenies.
But a rifle barrel is carefully grooved for equal pressure on all sides of the bullet, and the bullet is smooth and fits the barrel perfectly, while quite the opposite is true compared with a hand and a baseball. Even the delivery is really not adequate compared to a chemical ignition in a gun. Moving hips and shoulders certain ways seems dubious to produce the effect, and the break at fastball speed seems contradictory to the nature of bullets.
I'm hedging my bet that this gyroball is a hoax by Internet guys with too much time on their hands.
Shuutu (shootball) = reverse tailing fastball (slight cutter)? From fastball average of 90, 87-89 MPH?
I think I get that a little, I don't really get the fastball speed 3 foot break part with the "gyroball," and the article I don't think says which direction it breaks. Also, if something is traveling in a bullet (rifled-barrel spin) pattern (smooth-bore muskets do NOT create this pattern, hence their primitive inaccuracy, thank you historical fiction novels) it would go incurably straight and powerful, also pin point accurate. It would look different from a fastball because a fastball does break, thus why a very hard fastball appears to rise, because it breaks less quickly. The bullet-ball would be swung under very consistently, because it would appear to rise, or in other words, fail to break. You could also use it as a backdoor pitch to both lefties and righties because if you throw it down, to the corners, it would not break and the batter would assume from experience that it would fall below the strike zone, but it could really stay just about anywhere up to the middle of the strike zone.
It would not have a three foot break if it really had a bullet motion. It would have absolutely no break. The only thing it would break would be bats, as it would be incredibly hard, swinging on it would be ineffective, and you'd get a lot of infield pop ups. You could only really get a infield hit off of a good one.
So I don't get the bullet spin part. Bullets don't break or knuckle, like baseballs or smoothbore pellets. It would basically just be the sensation of a rising fastball on steroids, growth hormone, and greenies.
But a rifle barrel is carefully grooved for equal pressure on all sides of the bullet, and the bullet is smooth and fits the barrel perfectly, while quite the opposite is true compared with a hand and a baseball. Even the delivery is really not adequate compared to a chemical ignition in a gun. Moving hips and shoulders certain ways seems dubious to produce the effect, and the break at fastball speed seems contradictory to the nature of bullets.
I'm hedging my bet that this gyroball is a hoax by Internet guys with too much time on their hands.
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest: Richard | Posted: Apr 28, 2006 10:54 AM
]
Hello,
I have spent a lot of time studying the gyroball, and have even thrown it once. I will try to answer some questions in this thread.
First of all, yes it does exist. It has been thrown (although by not many people), the pitch was originally created as a theory. Without getting into too much, a gyroball is a pitch with a perfect spin, like a bullet.
Other pitches, say a curveball, have an unnatural spin because you flick your wrist. With a curveball, the ball first spins naturally, then the snap takes into effect and takes the ball off of its natural course, this is the exact opposite of the gyroball.
Yes it is something to get excited about. A pitch with this amount of movement could be revolutionary to pitchers, and is one of the few "new" pitches.
I have seen two different motions, one as a 12-6 slider, and one as breaking up and in to a righty. The odd thing about the gyroball is that, if thrown right, it should look like a hanging curveball to a hitter, with the hitter seeing 2 red circles on the ball (because of the perfect spin), it then breaks hard, high, and in.
It is real, I know because I have thrown it.
For more information, I started this thread [LetsTalkPitching.com], it basically contains everything I have found.
I have spent a lot of time studying the gyroball, and have even thrown it once. I will try to answer some questions in this thread.
First of all, yes it does exist. It has been thrown (although by not many people), the pitch was originally created as a theory. Without getting into too much, a gyroball is a pitch with a perfect spin, like a bullet.
Other pitches, say a curveball, have an unnatural spin because you flick your wrist. With a curveball, the ball first spins naturally, then the snap takes into effect and takes the ball off of its natural course, this is the exact opposite of the gyroball.
Yes it is something to get excited about. A pitch with this amount of movement could be revolutionary to pitchers, and is one of the few "new" pitches.
I have seen two different motions, one as a 12-6 slider, and one as breaking up and in to a righty. The odd thing about the gyroball is that, if thrown right, it should look like a hanging curveball to a hitter, with the hitter seeing 2 red circles on the ball (because of the perfect spin), it then breaks hard, high, and in.
It is real, I know because I have thrown it.
For more information, I started this thread [LetsTalkPitching.com], it basically contains everything I have found.
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest: kappa | Posted: Apr 28, 2006 12:39 PM
]
Who told you that gyroball has a three foot break?
Check this page [Matsuzaka Pitching Breakdown]. A slider is a slider, nothing so exciting, because we can't tell the difference if the movie is not slow-motion.
Would you like to watch a shootball? I have the video clip of shootball collection.
Check this page [Matsuzaka Pitching Breakdown]. A slider is a slider, nothing so exciting, because we can't tell the difference if the movie is not slow-motion.
Would you like to watch a shootball? I have the video clip of shootball collection.
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest: Richard | Posted: Apr 29, 2006 6:43 AM
]
Kappa,
I have never seen a shootball, I would very much appreciate if you could post your video.
I have never seen a shootball, I would very much appreciate if you could post your video.
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest: kappa | Posted: Apr 29, 2006 12:06 PM
]
Ok, let me know your e-mail address.
It is a small video clip (2.76MB) with shootballs by 18 pitchers from 1980-2005.
It is a small video clip (2.76MB) with shootballs by 18 pitchers from 1980-2005.
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest: Richard | Posted: Apr 29, 2006 10:21 PM
]
My e-mail address is ivortheenginedriver at gmail d0t com.
Thanks again,
Richard
Thanks again,
Richard
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: mvk20! | Posted: May 1, 2006 8:54 PM
| YG Fan
]
I'd like to see that video - mkulikosky at yahoo dot com. Thanks!
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest: kappa | Posted: May 1, 2006 11:48 PM
]
I sent an e-mail with shootball and sinker movie clip. I hope you enjoy them.
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: May 2, 2006 11:11 AM
| YBS Fan
]
There are getting to be quite a few requests for the video clip. Could you please send to westbaystars at japanesebaseball d0t com so that I may post it for everyone?
[Note: I've rejected a couple more messages requesting the clip be e-mailed to them individually. I think this would be better for everyone than sending a video via e-mail to many people. If you still really want the video e-mailed to you (rather than download it from here), please post again. Thank you for your understanding.]
[Note: I've rejected a couple more messages requesting the clip be e-mailed to them individually. I think this would be better for everyone than sending a video via e-mail to many people. If you still really want the video e-mailed to you (rather than download it from here), please post again. Thank you for your understanding.]
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest: kappa | Posted: May 2, 2006 10:51 PM
]
I've sent you movie clips:
- shoot.wmv [2.8MB] - Video of "shoot" balls.
-
Reply to this post
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Jbroks86 | Posted: May 7, 2006 8:34 AM
| SFT Fan
]
Also, this is a short clip of Daisuke Matsuzaka's gyroball [You Tube].
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest: David Gulmatico | Posted: Apr 5, 2007 1:40 PM
]
So what you are saying is that the gyroball is supposed to cause batters to swing under and pop up often? Well, I have done quite a bit of research and I believe I understand the way the gyroball works. When I attempted to throw this ball against a batter, the first time he swung completely under the ball, and the second time he popped up high to the third baseman. This information that you have put in your reply has made me more confident that I have figured out the secret to the gyroball.
Re: Gyroball/Shuuto/"The Ghost Pitch"
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Jun 24, 2008 10:09 PM
]
I realize that this is an old thread, but I just need to add this.
If the gyro is slightly off its axis it would have a 3 feet break.
If the gyro is slightly off its axis it would have a 3 feet break.
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I've read on wikipedia.org that he (will carrol) later realized that the shuuto and the "gyroball" are not the same pitch... however they continue to be associated thanks to this article
>>>>>
anyway, I am the kind of guy who just digs weird stuff like submarine pitchers, switch pitchers, left handed catchers and of course Brooks Kieschnick. I love Knuckles, I love Screwballs, I love Eephuses, Fadeaways, Spitballs.......
The semi-mythological "Japanese Gyroball" is like a holy grail.
Obviously, the name is fabricated. Shuuto isn't it either, so I hear and means "shootball" (so I hear) because it shoots away from or into the RHH from a RHP or something---
The only kind of hypothetical description I've been able to collect is that it is a "weird and singly unique pitch" which is hard to distinguish from a fastball and which is often mistaken for a two-seam fastball by the hitter/american fan> in other words, it breaks unexpectedly, but apparently, very unexpectedly and very, very late. On top of that is supposed to go "slower" than a fastball (or two-seamer). Slider speed, so I've heard, but thats pretty general, I've seen sliders at 76 and sliders at 91. Curves for instance, even if a guy throws 99 and the other throws 89, are likely to be in the mid seventies, unless they are those rare hard curves which are about slider speed. (These are MLB observations of course, but I'm pretty sure effective velocity is only a few MPH different even among the low grade pitchers between the leagues.)
The Gyroball is so special, whatever its name or exact movement, because is supposed to integrate new research and a completely different method of achieving movement. Its supposed to be called "double spin mechanics" of something, where your hips and shoulders/arms make two seperate but complementry motions. The Gyroball is supposedly an unexpected biproduct of this supercomputer Japanese underground baseball research.
If its true and actually functions as in legend,
it might have its own family of pitches, considering its completely different from the fastball (I think backspin?) family and the extended breaking ball family and changeup family (which also supposedly includes forkballs esp). I think the splitter and knuckleball pitches are the only really standalone pitches, and the Gyroball would be more fantastic than both of these combined, as it involves more than just a grip change.
Daisuke Matsuzaka is supposed to throw it and I watched some cheap internet video of him throwing something which had some odd movement which I couldn't really describe> it could have been a circle change or something like a boring/riding fastball, I'm not sure.
What I'd like to ask is
Is this a pitch which exists? If so, is it something worth getting excited about? What is its motion, speed?
What do Japanese fans, analysts or players call it?
Thanks for your time, I appreciate it.