Ishii Takuro Finished?

I'm afraid that that's the story I've been reading in Nikkan Sports and Sports Hochi.

Ohya-kantoku tried the "revive the veteran" approach, centering around Takuro and Suzuki-kun early on. It didn't work out. Now he's into "promote the youth" mode, and that's what we're going to see more of next season.

How has Takuro done this year? Here are his cumulative total from month to month:

+------------+----+-----+----+----+-------+
| Date       |  G |  AB |  H | HR |  Avg. |
+------------+----+-----+----+----+-------+
| 2008-03-31 |  3 |  14 |  4 |  0 | 0.286 | 
| 2008-04-30 | 24 |  90 | 23 |  0 | 0.256 | 
| 2008-05-31 | 45 | 156 | 41 |  0 | 0.263 | 
| 2008-06-30 | 57 | 195 | 52 |  1 | 0.267 | 
| 2008-07-31 | 68 | 215 | 57 |  1 | 0.265 | 
| 2008-08-31 | 82 | 248 | 68 |  2 | 0.274 | 
| 2008-09-30 | 93 | 271 | 72 |  2 | 0.266 | 
+------------+----+-----+----+----+-------+

After having sustained a batting average around .260 plus/minus .005 for much of June, he was taken out of the starting lineup. July came and Takuro was relegated to pinch hitting and defensive replacement duties.

Defensively, I'd rather see Ishii at short than Ishikawa or Nonaka. I was impressed with Nonaka at the end of 2007, but he wasn't the same this year, and I've lost a bit of confidence in him.

Takuro used to be a leader. Even when he wasn't the team captain, he took on the role of leading both the offense and defense. But I haven't seen that "take charge" look in his eyes as he's gone to the mound in a while (since he was replace by Ishikawa on April 1, 2007 [Japanese Wikipedia]? That also broke his full innings played streak at 339 games - second to Kanemoto).

Nobody likes it when a well established fan favorite gets phased out, deserving or not. It's a very hard thing for a manager to do (thus it's usually part of a managerial change that triggers it to happen). I think he's still got another year or two in him, especially at defense. A team that can afford a shortstop with a .250 batting average will do well with him.

If he stays, I'll be cheering for him to improve his batting and regain the starting shortstop role. But I'm accepting that he may go elsewhere and wreak havoc on the BayStars (as everyone else who goes elsewhere does). (Just imagine how many home runs Murata and Yoshimura would hit if they faced BayStars' pitching. Yikes!)

I saw that too and nearly had a heart attack.

I don't understand at all why they are trying to get rid of Takuro though. I mean, for example, I like Saeki a lot, but he can't run and he can't throw, and yet he is out there fairly often in left field. Yet Takuro, who can still play mostly just fine, is sitting on the bench? Why?

I'm a bit biased since I'm a gigantic Takuro fan and all, but he's a Meikyukai guy and a likely future Hall of Famer. He spent his whole career with the BayStars, why shouldn't he finish it there in a dignified way and retire as a BayStar, and maybe even transition into being a coach? (Think Tatsunami with the Dragons.) I really, really, really don't get it.

There are times when it's a valid idea to phase out your veteran players, but when you are historically terrible and your fans are trying to remember why they should come to the ballpark and watch your team, that doesn't seem to be one of them.

I also saw that the BayStars had their list of guys they are releasing (well, or whatever 戦力外通告 is exactly -- notice that they won't continue next year with the team?), and it seems like an odd group to me, especially getting rid of Ozeki and Nishizaki. I don't really know why Nishizaki hasn't gotten a chance at ichi-gun, because when I see him at ni-gun he can really rake.

Argh. I just really, really, really don't understand.

I guess Yokohama is thinking that they can promote the entire SeaRex line-up to ichi-gun and win a championship next year. The front office of Yokohama is full of it, bottom line.

I also agree with Deanna on Ozeki and more so on Nishizaki. If Yokohama truly wanted to rebuild, they would've started by getting rid of the current manager, but since they didn't do that, I knew they were going to make some moves that me and a whole lot of others weren't going to like. But I never thought that they would do something like this. It may hurt me to say this, but I would rather see Takuro spend a whole season at ni-gun rather than seeing him play in another uniform.

Which brings me to today's game (Oct. 5) against the Carp.

I was very happy yet bitter seeing Kawamura throw his final pitches today. It was beautiful to see Kawamura, (who is a hometown hero of sorts because he's from Atsugi in Kanagawa) give his farewell speech and hearing both Hiroshima and Yokohama fans pay tribute to a great pitcher. But at the same time, I couldn't stop thinking about "everybody's favorite shortstop in Yokohama" and how we will probably never get to see that special day when "everybody's favorite shortstop in Yokohama" is honored.

And I firmly believe that it was also bittersweet for some of the other fans also because they were probably thinking the same exact things as I was.

I think that what it came down to was a conversation like this:

Front Office: Takuro. We'd like to arrange your retirement game this week.

T. Ishii: But I'm not ready to retire.

FO: Well, I'm afraid that we don't really plan on extending your contract to next season. So, which day would you like your retirement ceremony? We've got games until the 10th.

TI: I don't plan on retiring, but I would like to finish out my career here in Yokohama where I've played for the last 20 years.

FO: Oh, um. Well, let us think this over a bit. We got a video all made and everything for you. I guess we'll have to dump that. Might a trade work out? Hmmmm. We'll have some serious thinking to do. Are you sure you don't want your retirement game this weekend?

TI: I'm not ready to retire.

So I'm not as good at these conversations as Deanna, but I think you get my drift. Takuro wanted to stay, the BayStars most likely wanted to do a big event for his retirement. The only thing left for fans to hope for is that he'll eventually return as a coach like Haru did.

So Westbay, would it also be safe to assume that Kawamura also had a similar conversation of sorts with the front office as well?

No, I don't think so. I think that Kawamura knew his time had come. My algorithm for his use was to not allow him to pitch to more than three batters in an inning. He was either three-up, three-down or two down with a runner at first (usually via a walk) then a home run.

And, no, I don't have the data to support that. But that's how it seemed to go oh so often.

You're right Westbay. Kawamura seemed to get into more trouble this year than in years past (in particular last season when I saw him the most).

You know, when they showed Kawamura's retirement video on Sunday, everyone cheered loudly when the last out of the '98 Japan Series was shown. And I couldn't help but think to myself that this is the closest we're probably going to get to the Japan Series for a very long time.

It really is sad when a lot of the fans use the excuse that "we're a poor team so therefore we can't improve all that much." It really makes me question my loyalty to this team.

The BayStars won it all in 1998 on home grown talent. Komada at first was a former Giant, and Robert Rose at second was their main contributing import (and had been with them for many years). Otherwise, it was a home grown youth movement that Ohya-kantoku had started two years earlier. So it is possible to create a championship team on a budget.

What makes me upset with this argument is that it's mis-information regarding Kroon. Even Wayne Graczyk perpetuates it in his column this week where he says, "Perhaps if the Swallows and BayStars paid for talented players, they would win again [...]." The Giants didn't out-bid the BayStars monetarily! Did nobody else read the newspaper?

The Giants would give Kroon two years guaranteed, whereas the BayStars (rightfully at the time based on Kroon's knee giving out) would only guarantee one year. Of all the blunders the BayStars' front office has committed the past decade, this was not one of them! In hindsight, it may not have turned out for the best, but based on the information at the time, it was the wisest choice. Yet I seem to be the only person who sees it that way.

I'm upset with Yokohama's front office for the way they treated Rose and Komiyama. They won points back with their handling of Kroon, offering him very good pay (which the Giants matched), and including terms to protect them in the case Kroon's knee turned out to be beyond repair.

If you're going to listen to these inflamed, rabble rousing fans, ask them this: "Did the Giants pay more money for Kroon than the BayStars offered?" Any who say "Yes" is not paying attention to the facts, yet are getting emotionally charged. They can be safely ignored.

The problem is, how do you go about educating the fans? It's so much easier to follow emotion than facts. Unfortunately, I don't have an answer to that one. And those things which I don't have an answer for, I tend to not complain too loudly about. I'd rather hear about potential solutions than more imaginary problems.

I appreciate your comments about Kroon, but it was a mistake and a very bad one. Sometimes you need to not only spend money but to lock up money in a longer term risk than normal. The BayStars were being cheapskates - they were not rightfully worrying about his knee giving out. They were just looking for a way to make false savings. It's common enough in business to look for the quick savings without considering the long term. The BayStars' front office had no way of knowing what would happen in two years, and it was a short sighted decision. They chose the negative view which rather fits in with their short-sighted approach to things. I appreciate your defense of the front office, but there is no justification except as a short term cost saving.

Ishii has been poorly handled, and once again it shows a short sighted organization which does not deserve the loyalty or respect of the players who play for it.

The BayStars not re-signing Kroon only because they were worried about his knee giving is a bunch of you know what to be honest with you. I know for a fact that Yokohama had more than one chance to re-sign him because I had a conversation with Kroon's manager before the end of last season and he told me so. He also told me that Marc's knee wasn't as bad as people made it out to be and that all he needed was some time off to rest and get healthy (perhaps a little stint on the injured reserved list anyone?). But since he decided to play through the pain, it didn't get any better and it made him look worse.

But what really gets me about all this is the fact that Yokohama never found a suitable replacement for Kroon after they choose not to re-sign him. Yokohama clearly did not have a backup plan as evidenced by the approach they took afterwards. Did they honestly think that Travis Hughes' one good season at Triple A Pawtucket would overshadow his 5.61 lifetime ERA in his MLB appearances? I also found it ironic that Hughes was given #42 also. And what happened after Hughes didn't pan out? They ended up putting Terahara into the closers role. When Yokohama traded Tamura, we traded for "Terahara the Starter" not "Terahara the Closer." I distinctly remember all this Miura & Terahara "Double Ace" talk after the trade had happened. So, by taking Terahara out of the rotation, Yokohama shattered what was already a fragile rotation to begin with, and in the end, not only ended up getting burned in the bullpen department, but it also left its rotation in worse shape than it was in at the end of the 2007 season. And also, Terahara wasn't all that great as the closer this year, either, so I still think Yokohama needs to find someone better for that role.

So Westbay, this is why I can not see eye to eye with you on the entire Kroon thing.

Christopher, your argument sounds like the one that has caused a great deal of trouble in the U.S. financial area of late. My motto has always been "don't gamble what you can't afford to lose." I have no dreams or aspirations to be rich, so the whole high risk high return argument doesn't sway me. I'm sorry. You can talk about marketing and investment strategy until your face turns blue, but such market-speak requires a level of greed in your target audience that I just don't have.

No.1BayFan, your arguments this time around are much more compelling. Using your friends in right field as a source for your anger, I tend to be a bit skeptical. While I don't doubt their loyalty to the BayStars, they sound like a group of kids who are more inclined to jump to conclusions about the how and why of things rather than actively investigate them. That you did go through the trouble to dig deeper by talking this over with Kroon's manager (agent?) shows that you weren't just taking their word for it. That's very good. To be a little cynical, I fear that an agent would have other motivations to downplay an injury, but it looks like he turns out to have been correct. Bonus points for Kroon's manager.

What the BayStars didn't do with the money they saved from Kroon's not re-signing is probably the biggest thing I agree with - both looking at the problem from what I knew then and in retrospect. Yokohama once did the best job of finding productive foreign players of the 12 teams, now I'm not so sure what their foreign scouts are up to.

With Terahara moving to the bullpen, I was under the impression that he did so due to soreness in his shoulder. Having him work shorter was supposed to allow him to give every pitch his all. I can't say that much of anything has worked out according to plan this season.

As for the subject at hand, I agree, the front office blundered with the handling of Takuro. And now Suzuki-kun appears to be the next casualty of the season.

All I can do is hope that something positive comes from these losses next season. But your friends in right field have good cause for pessimism.

The financial problem is actually more to do with over-leveraging (borrowing too much) and rampant short termism not a long term approach. In fact one can say that the BayStars are in a similar position to the banks (an inexact analogy I agree) they went for a short term approach and paid the price. Think of Kroon as an investment - you don't know how the investment will turn out but indications are it will turn out well but you have to adopt a long-term approach to realize the value. This is not a fashionable approach in the markets I'm afraid. Now think of a short term approach - we want to make things cheaper. This is the BayStar's approach.

Spend more on Kroon, bring in more fans, get more income from merchandising, make profits and be able to buy even better players. With better players bring in more fans and suddenly the BayStars are a going concern not an advertising write off. But you have to ensure that you spend the money in the first place. Spending money on players does not guarantee victory but it gives you more chance of competing and winning. Competing and winning gives you more chance of bringing in fans and means that Uchikawa, Murata, and Yoshimura are not wasted.

The only other club who could manage something as flawed as this decision is Orix (Tuffy Rhodes - we only give one year contracts to foreigners). Kroon has just completed his best year in Japan. It looks like the Giants are going to enjoy the benefits of Kroon for another year. They took the risk, they reap the benefits. BayStars didn't take the risk, they pay the price.

As Deanna says, today's (October 4, 2008) Nikkan Sports states that Ishii Takuro was given notice that he won't be retained by the BayStars next season. He had spoken to Yokohama's front office and said that he wants to remain with Yokohama, but the front office wasn't swayed. Yokohama is now deciding whether to use Ishii in a trade or to just release him straight out so that he's free to try out where ever he chooses.

Suzuki Takanori is meeting with the front office today to decide his fate. It sounds like it may be the same as Takuro.

As for Saeki, I thought he was released last off season, so it was a bit surprising to see him at the start of this season.

Just saw in Nikkan Sports that Takanori Suzuki decided to retire and, I think, become a ni-gun coach, if I am reading that correctly. It said he couldn't even think about playing in a uniform other than Yokohama's.

Poor Suzuki-kun. Well, at least we can maybe see him at SeaRex games next year.

Oh and one more thing, on the BayStars online web store, for all of the player goods that have Takuro's name on them, you can no longer choose his number when you order. Not adding fuel to the fire or anything, but it's not looking good.

Well, it's official. Takuro has been released and has become a free agent (I assume) and Suzuki T. has retired and become a ni-gun coach.

But right now, I would like to clarify some things in this thread (yes, I know I'm late).

Westbay, I've never used my friends as a source of my anger. I just report what I see and what I hear at the ballpark when I go to cheer. My anger comes from my team's sense of short-sightedness and lack of preparation when it comes to making decisions for the better well-being of the team.

I compare my current situation as a BayStars fan to that of my hometown Chicago Cubs. For years, I put up with the Tribune Newspaper company "milking the proverbial cash cow" and only taking from the team and not giving back. But 3 years ago, they decided to spend on free agents in an attempt to make the team better, and sure enough, the team has been in contention ever since and our GM has shown a re-newed commitment to improve the team if needed.

Now, am I saying that Yokohama needs to just go out and spend on free agents like the Cubs did? No. All I ask is that they put the time and effort into their decision making and make an effort into improving the team. The trades of Tsuruoka and Koike were good starting points, but it's clear we need to do a lot more.

And second, the conversation I had with Kroon's "manager" was to inquire about tickets to a game and not solely about the player himself. I guess you could say that it went from a ten minute conversation to a 3 hour one as we chatted about various things.

But, enough with the past, so to speak, and on to the future. I am aware of Yokohama's "early" interest in Higashide and that they are preparing a 3 year 8億円 contract extension for Miura. So, like many other BayStars fans, I can only hope that the team makes the effort to improve this off season and starts to contend again in the near future.

Ishii is determined to play pro ball a little longer and is attending the Hiroshima try out on the 26th of this month.

Source: Sanspo [in Japanese]

Looks like Takuro has received a contract (or an offer at least) from the Hiroshima Toyo Carp. All the information is on the Carp's website in the first news headline. It will be interesting to see him playing in red and surrounded by a young lineup.

Takuro had his press conference today and he is now an official member of the Hiroshima Toyo Carp. I've really got mixed feelings about this whole thing, but I'm extremely happy that one of my favorite players will continue his career. Good luck next year and always know that I will be cheering for you Takuro.

He's wearing number 25 apparently. Wow!

I'm kinda torn, I figured if I ever got a Carp jersey I was going to get Saitoh #21, but I'm thinking I might like to get a Takuro jersey instead, just because.

Agreed. It was very hard to look at that picture when I first saw it. But now, it's not so bad really. He looks pretty good in red to be honest with you. All I know is that I'll be rooting for Hiroshima a little bit more than usual next year.