World Cup Baseball

The World Cup idea is great. May I propose an alternative until the time a world cup is ever worked out?

I will trot "my old horse" that I've been suggesting for over 20 years. MLB, NPB, KBO, CPBL, and Mexican League championship systems are already in place. Why not send the champions from each of the respective leagues to play at Aloha Stadium in Hawaii every November? These leagues represent the best professional players from all the world.

I think that the idea of a true "world champion" is great. Unfortunately I feel that MLB heads would not want to take part for the reason that if they lost it would only damage the image of MLB more than it already is. If it did happen I think that the best place to hold the Tourney should alternate each year.

You have a good point. NPB and the other leagues have everything to gain. MLB would have a marketing nightmare if they lost. Since 1900, MLB has claimed undisputed supriority over any other leagues.

You know, the first World Cup soccer tournament was held in Uruguay back in 1930. FIFA did not have any money back then and only 13 nations participated, 7 from South America, 4 from Europe, the USA, and Mexico. And Uruguay was the champions. The UK (England) did not participate saying they were undoubtedly the greatest and did not need to compete to prove that.

England first joined in 1950 but lost to the US. They had to wait until 1966 to celebrate the championship.

But I think MLB will be crushing other leagues. The thing is MLB has gatherd the best players from all the nations. So it's really up to MLB to make this materialize.

I think everyone would agree that it will take MLB to make this happen. I also agree that MLB has the best potential to dominate such a series. But I think that it should not be an all-star type series. The champions from thier respective leagues would compete in the series. That brings up the argument that MLB would not be sending thier 25 best players.

Therefore I propose that we hold a yearly tournament of champions from each respected league, and every four years, "like the World Cup," you assemble teams from each professional league consisting of the 25 best players and compete in round robin format, or I believe that if there are five leagues, the host country can enter two teams and you do best of three prelim rounds and best of three semis with the championship series being best of five. This is my idea of bringing baseball back to its day of fame, but it's up to MLB to make it happen.

Would Ichiro et. al. be eligible for the Japanese or MLB teams? In a World Cup type format, it would be nationality-based, so the U.S. squad would not have Sammy Sosa, Vlad Guerrero, Ichiro, etc. Would be interesting...

Check this out for possible WC teams ...

http://crystalball.jp/ewc.htm

I think the World Cup will be between countries not between teams. All players from Dominican Republic will play for the Dominican Republic, not for a team champion in MLB or Japan, Korea, Mexico, etc.

Donald Fehr, chief of the MLB Players' Union, wants this. MLB wants this. The world wants this.

So it is necesary to set a good date, maybe November 2005, and prepare money for the players. If the World Cup is organized for MLB is secure way, every star from MLB will play.

This World Cup idea has been around for at least 50 years. MLB always gives lip service to approving it at the "right" time. Good Luck. Until that day - my suggestion is more easily accomplished since MLB and NPB already play "exhibihition" games every two years and the teams are in place. Either way - I hope pro baseball can truly become international.

That's a great site, but it needs to clear up a few things.

• Jason Giambi can only play 1B/DH and cannot play 3B for the U.S. team.


• Mike Lowell considers himself an American of Cuban heritage and not Puerto Rican, even though he was born in San Juan P.R.


• Jorge Posada is in the same boat (Cuban heritage), but unlike Lowell, I believe he would play for Puerto Rico.


• Speaking of Cuba, none of the Cuban MLB players listed are eligible for the Cuban national team because they are defectors. They are basically banned for life, so a Cuban national team can never have MLB players on it.


• Also it is almost a given that A-rod would play for the U.S. team.


• The Dominican already has Miguel Tejeda to play SS and there would be intense pressure for A-rod to play for his birth country and homeland of the United States.


• Nomar playing for Egypt (do they even have a national baseball team?) or Mexico is just silly. Nomar is as All-American as you can get.

Good point. You know a lot about the Latin players. A-Rod said in December in Santo Domingo he will play for the Dominican Republic in the World Cup or Olympics Games. The Posada father is Cuban, but his mother is DOMINICAN. So he was born in Puerto Rico and played in the Puerto Rican Winter League.

[Admin: Best Dominican team snipped. We're getting off subject. Sorry, but I don't want to see a repeat of the best MLB/New York team thread.]

For what it's worth, Jim Small of the MLB office told me about two years ago that the MLB had serious plans to establish a World Baseball Cup before 2005. The first one was to be held in the U.S. in the month of March, but 9/11 forced a postponement of their plans.

Thanks for info, guys. Well, According to Enrique, A-Rod is willing to play for the Dominican Republic in the World Cup. No one can be certain that he is gonna play for the US. Jason Simontacchi (11-5 4.02 last year for the Cards) was born in California and he is an American who never lived in Italy, but played for Italy in the Olympics. How did it happen?

The manager of Rimini in the Italian Professional Baseball League called him out of the blue and offered him a spot on his team simply based on his Italian surname. [Link - MemphisRedBirds.com]

You know when it comes to WC, it's hard to say certain players are gonna play for where.

Here in Japan, for the soccer WC, we've seen Lopez and Santos play for the Japanese team. They don't look like Japanese and have absolutely no Japanese heritage or what-so-ever. They just played in J-League for a while and picked up some Japanese language. That's all. But Japan gave them a Japanese passport and they were in.

I selected the players to make it interesting. And there is a possibility that A-Rod would play for the D.R. If he wants to, no one can say no. Dave Roberts' Mom is Japanese, so I think there is possibility that he may play for Japan. [Link - RyukyuShimpo.co.jp - English - 2nd artcle] Because Japan would want him even though he does not speak Japanese. He has faced who would be the team USA (or D.R.) members. He can inform the Japanese players what they would expect. Shinjo could probably be invited for that reason.

It's just fun to imagine at this point. You never know what's gonna happen. As for Giambi playing 3B, he can play because he used to. In his first year in MLB, he played 3B more than any other position. The expected line-up is just an example and off course, order can change from day to day anyway. I wanted to bring in Giambi and Helton in the line up. But it does not really matter because Chavez is as good. Actually it makes more sense to have Chavez on 3B and Giambi on 1B, so I corrected it.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your opinions. And for the comments that Cuban defectors can not play for Cuba, it is true at this point and time, but look at what happened to E&W Germanies. Families separated and killed when crossing the border and now, they are one. History proves that we can understand each others and overcome political difficulties...

For multiples reazons, a lot athletes have decisions about the flags they support in international events. For example, the actual champion in the 400 meters vault was born in the United States (like A-Rod), but his parents are from Dominican Republic (like A-Rod) and he run for Dominican Republic in international events. His name is Felix Sanchez. Sanchez was invited by the United States for the national track and field team, but he prefered the Dominican Republic. He was born, studied, and lived in the United States. You never know (this phrase is from Joaquin Andujar, one ex dominican pitcher in MLB).

On the other hand, Patrick Ewing is from Jamaica, but played in the American basketball Dream Team in the Olympics games. Mary Joe Fernandez was born and raised in the Dominican Republic, but played tennis for the United States in the Davis Cup. Finally, did you know that most sons of Dominican players in MLB were born in the United States? Sammy Sosa sons were born in Chicago, Moises Alou was born in Atlanta, where his father Felipe Alou played, etc., etc.

Good point, Enrique. For the 2002 World Cup Soccer, the French team had half of the team born outside France. Marcel Desailly (D) was born in Ghana, Liliam Thuram (D) was born in Guadeloupe, Bixente Lizarazu (D) was born and raised in the Basque country (Basque Separatinsts were threatening his family), Patrick Vieira (M) is from Senegal, Claude Makelele(M) was born and raised in the Democratic Republic of Congo, David Trezeguet (F) is actually from Argentina, ... So the list goes on.

It's not me or you who decide, or the country for that matter, it is the player himself. Again it is just a game, ya' know.

We had a talk on Moises Alou that even though he was born in the States, he'll probably play for his dad's homeland (he's just too old to be selected if it happens in 2005). We all have that feeling because everybody knows where his dad is from. Now, not too many people talk about A-Rod playing for his parents' homeland, but I'd be happy see him play for D.R. I know his parents will be so glad. Just for that reason.

Who's on first, What's on second, I Don't Know's on third??? lol

This is a question that pops up in all international sports, and in some nations more than others. Countries that have high numbers of new immigrants are more likely to have sportspeople who are torn between their country of birth/ancestry and their adopted country. The soccer example given above is one instance; another is rugby. For instance, many of the New Zealand team were born in Samoa and Tonga; most times, if they think they can qualify for NZ, they give up the chance to play for their countries of birth and concentrate on the NZ team, or if they think they'll not make the top NZ team, they make themselves unavailable for NZ and try out for their other home country.

Getting back to baseball, someone like Tuffy Rhodes would likely not make a US team, but (based on form) would be in with a chance of qualifying for Japan. Do you think he'd choose to play for Japan?

For players, in any sport, is like a dream that they can play in bigs (MLB, World Cup, Olympics, etc). They are ready to play for any team if they don't have a chance in their own country. For example, Mark Jackson's (ex-NBA) grandmother was from the Dominican Republic. So Jackson called the Dominican Federation to play in Sidney 2000. The problem is that the Dominican didn't qualify for the Olympics Games. I think this is valid.

When you grow up in the Dominican Republic, you dream about playing for Licey or Aguilas in Winter League and the Yankees in Major League, but when you have 16 o 17 years, you sign for the Expos (never won championship) and play for Estrellas Orientales (the last crown was in 1968, like Cubs or BoSox from MLB).

- [...] someone like Tuffy Rhodes would likely not make a US team, but (based on form) would be in with a chance of qualifying for Japan. Do you think he'd choose to play for Japan?

Yes, I was going to bring up the subject. Not only Tuffy has played in Japan so many seasons, but he fits in very well. He speaks good Japanese, eats Japanese food etc... And of course the Japanese would love to have him.

And Latin countries can have a lot of MLB players born in USA. For example Russ Ortiz (SF-ATL), 14 game winner last year, may be selected for team USA, but it's not for certain. Born and raised in the Valley outside of LA, I guess his family is from Mexico. I haven't gotten too deep into that, but there are many others, I believe. Latin families are very close and very influencial to each other. So team Mexico would have many more players than my list.

Hmmm??? Maybe this World Cup idea is not so "cut and dried"??? HaHaHa.

Of course, my suggestion for a "World Series" between existing champions (MLB, NPB, KBO, CPBL, ML) is too complicated - LOL.

You could make the same argument about Ichiro. By the time any BWC rolls around he would have played a number of years in the States. He fits in very well and probably speaks better English (he keeps it quiet) than Tuffy speaks Japanese. The Americans would love to have a leadoff hitter like Ichiro.

I know that Tuffy has no chance to make the American team, but you could go down this road by choosing a foreign player just because he plays in your country's league. If Tuffy can play for Japan, than why couldn't Ichiro play for the USA? Of course neither event will happen. Rhodes would have to get Japanese citizenship to represent Japan. Since he only lives here when he plays and returns to his homeland during the off-season, he would never give up his U.S. citizenship to do so. Of course we know Ichiro would only play for Japan.

One other thing to add to sipin3_jp. Just because an American is of Hispanic ethnicity, it doesn't mean he has close ties to another country. Russ Ortiz's family might have been in the States for 5 or 6 generations. They might have been in America a lot longer than someone with a very "American" sounding name like Smith or Jones. So playing for Mexico might be a very foreign concept for Ortiz and others.

I also think with the war and all the crazy goings on you are not likely to see Americans playing for other country's teams. This is just my opinion having lived in America the past 10 years and seeing a tremendous anti-American sentiment out there. It is doubtful that a Californian kid like Jason Simontacchi would pitch for a foreign country now, like he did in 2000.

- Of course neither event will happen.

Well, never say never. You can't compare Ichiro's case to Tuffy. Theoretically ,Ichiro can play for the US, but I don't think so. The reason he went to the States is not that he wanted to play together with the Major Leaguers, but he wanted to play AGAINST the Major Leagures, don't you think?

Tuffy doesn't have a chance with the US team, so he can join the Japanese. And again, all I'm saying is it is possible. You can't decide what's gonna happen.

I think there had been enough posts that explained for WC   Olympics. And there have been many examples of players participating a country he or she is not from. Santos just got the Japanese passport a couple months before the WC and after the WC, he split or at least tried, too. He had the deal with the Premire League in England right after the WC (which he blew).

I am not really a baseball fanatic. This World Cup idea is something I think would be lot better than MLB. Baseball is an arena where people can play together, agaist each other, and have fun. And I just wish that a lot of countries can share this event. And eventually learn something. Something like sharing or understanding. Because the world is one messed up place.

If I can refer to my experince, I lived in LA for 15 years (1981-1996) and I used to work with Dan & Kenny Nomura when Enatsu tried out for the Brewers. That got me deep into this thing and I waited so long for Nomo, but I knew that was gonna happen. I could imagine today's MLB.

People said never, a Japanese player will never make it to the MLB and receive MVP awards. I remember talking about baseball to regular MLB fans pre-Nomo era, they would punch me in the face if I said some Japanese was gonna be the best MLB player.

So it just reminds me (hearing Tuffy is never gonna play for the Japanese team), to me it's like, yeah, there you go again.

[Old thread alert.]

Mary Joe Fernandez' parents are Cubans; so are Posada's, not Dominican as someone said. Both are Cubans, just check Cuban American lists and learn. Most of the best Latin athletes are of Cuban heritage.

Arenas, both Brothers Lopez are of Cuban heritage. The skater, Lisa Fernandez; and sofball are also of Cuban heritage. So are Arroyo, Freel, Chulk, Hermida, Andino, F Lopez, Eric Hosmer, Matt Dominguez, JP Arencibia, Alex Avila, Yasmani Grandal, Raul Ibanez, Jon Jay, Chris Marrero, Christian Marrero, Adrian Cardenas, Gio Gonzalez, Gabe Hernandez, Gabby Sanchez, and some others.

A team composed by the Cubans from Cuba and the ones here will be almost unbeatable because of the pitching.

There is a World Cup for baseball already. As a matter of fact, World Cup 2003 will be held in October in Cuba. I think they are set for October, although that is the busy time because every league around the world has post season games going on. The last World Cup was held in Taiwan, where Cuba won the champion, U.S.A. second, and Taiwan came in third, followed by Japan.

The existing championships are the Amateur World Cup. The writers in this forum want to include the best professionals.

This World Cup that I am talking about is not that amateur one. Many countries (like Taiwan, Japan, Korea, even U.S.A.) called their pro players to the tournament. The only problem is that MLB and NPB are not willing to let their top players participate in this event. MLB is concerned that these players may get injured during the tournament, and Japanese players could not go because of the Giants' owner, Watanabe. These are the obstacles that are keeping the best players from playing each other. I would really love to see Barry Bonds playing against Taiwan again, but it doesn't seem like it'll happen in a short while.

Your idea is interesting and has been raised by other analysts, so I won't call it a bad idea. There is already a good example of such a structure in the Carribean Series, but the idea of a team from each representive league is very flawed and complicated.

Besides the obvious that the marquee of this event is to send the best players each nation has to offer, there are other problems. Because of the internationalization of the MLB, representive teams from, say DR, can't field the best players in winter ball. Winter ball teams are mostly made up of minor leaguers or young development players. How would they compete against professional Japanese teams or MLB teams, even if you gave a number of roster spots? Like the Carribean Series, this would not be the Carribean nations' best team.

Second let's take this year's World Series winner, the Red Sox. Most of its best players are Dominican. Would Pedro, Manny, and "Papi" play against their homeland because they represent the MLB? And what kind of team is the Sox without these players? Stick to a FIFA format - nations pick best players. The problem being that MLB will play a huge role in this and procede over national governing bodies.

I like the World Cup idea. Hockey has been changed due to professionals in the Olympics, so having a baseball World Cup would/could popularize baseball even more.

The best teams would be the Domincian Republic, USA, Mexico, Canada, Venezula, Puerto Rico, Cuba, and Japan. Also, Nicguraga and Columbia have a couple MLB superstars.

My list, in no particular order, of the world's best baseball countries:

USA
Domincan Republic
Puerto Rica
Canada
Mexico
Venezula
Japan
Cuba
Nicuraga
Columbia

You are right in your list about the best countries in baseball nowdays. My order is USA, Dominican Republic, Cuba, Japan, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, and Mexico.

You can't forget about Taiwan, they're the best team in Asia after Japan and South Korea, and they constantly beat them in Asian tournaments. Not to mention winning bunch of little league titles.

Give me one error for forgetting Taiwan. Was my fault.

For whatever it's worth (one cent) here's my list:

1. USA
2. Japan
3. Dominican Republic
4. Cuba
5. South Korea
6. Puerto Rico
7. 7. Venezuela
8. Taiwan
9. Mexico
10. Canada

Go ahead and laugh, but don't rake me over the coals!!!

My 1, 2, 3 are pretty firm, but the rest can be in any order.

Hi Kiyoshi, nice to read you.

United States and Japan have big leagues (MLB and NPB), but the Dominican Republic has the talent to play baseball. I think that only the U.S.A. can put together a better team than the Dominican Republic on the diamond nowdays. Because the Japanese players don't have the same coverage, like MLB, a lot of people (include me) don't know a lot about them.

Whatever, I think it would be dificult for Japan to make a team like this: Juan Brito (Kansas) or Alberto Castillo (will play in Mexico 2003) at catcher; David Ortiz (Boston) at 1B; Alfonso Soriano (Yankees) at 2B; Alex Rodriguez (Texas) at 3B; Miguel Tejada (Oakland) at SS; Sammy Sosa (Cubs), Manny Ramirez (Boston), and Vladimir Guerrero (Expos) as OFs. Albert Pujols (San Luis) is the DH. Moises Alou (Cubs), Luis Castillo (Florida), Tony Batista (Oriols), Raul Mondesi (Yankees), Rafael Furcal (Atlanta), and Adrian Beltre (Dodgers) go to the bench. Pedro Martinez (Boston), Bartolo Colon (White Sox), Ramon Ortiz (Anaheim), Pedro Astacio (Mets), and Odalis Perez (Dodgers) are the starters. Jose Mesa (Phillies), Armando Benitez (Mets), Felix Rodriguez (San Francisco, Octavio Dotel (Houston), Julian Tavarez (Pirates), and Damaso Marte (White Sox) go to the bullpen.

Enrique,

How did I guess you wouldn't miss DR in third place on my list? Hmmm?

Thank you my friend.

My order would be:

1. Dominican Republic
2. U.S.A.
3. Puerto Rico
4. Japan
5. South Korea
6. Canada
7. Mexico
8. Venezel
9. Cuba
10. Taiwan

[Revitalizing old thread.]

And you were totally wrong, because Japan is #1 twice, with Cuba not far behind, as well as Korea.

In general , Dominicana, Puerto Rico and Venezuela don't play well as Teams. Cuba does, so do Korea and Japan. The U.S is probably the best, but will never win because their players have no heart. Japan/Cuba/Korea are the three top baseball Countries in the world. Then come the U.S, Ven., P. Rico, DR, Netherlands, Mexico, Canada, and Australia.

There already is a Baseball World Cup, go check the official IBAF web site. In 2003, the Cup is to be held in Cuba.

This year what surprised me is that France actually got into contention again, after finishing 15th in World Cup competition in Taipei.

[See also this thread for more information.]

The June 19, 2003 Taipei Times [Link] reports on a presentation by an MLB task force staff to stage the first Professional World Cup, possibly before the 2003 season.

papajohn56 is writing about the amateur World Cup, not the best of professional baseball.

"Yes, there will be a World Cup and there will be a real World Series winner," Selig said. [Link - MLB.com]

Alright, it's really nice to hear that this idea is getting materialized. Folks, stop thinking about the current IBAF World Cup which is just an upgraded version of the amateur baseball tornament which started in 1938. We all are aware of it. IBAF WC or Olympics do not excite us.

And my site has bee moved to http://www.jc-i.jp/ewc.htm.

Looks like MLB might slip out of a World Cup situation again over a dispute about "drug" policy. MLB is great at giving "lip service" to a World Cup involving the whole world, or even a "world series" with NPB. But come game time, MLB gladly sends minor leaguers - never a full committment.

It's spelled Colombia. Don't take it badly, that's a common mistake, but everyone over here dislikes that.

Cuba is the most sucessful team in the World Cup history, being the champions 26 times and never having finished lower than third place. Cuba has won 10 consecutive World Cups. Also in Olympic games, Cuba has been the leader with three gold medals, next is USA with only one in Sidney in 2000. Furthermore, Cuba doesn't has never lossed a Panamerican game since Cali Colombia in 1971, I guess.

They are going full throttle, with the home run derby at the all-star game this year and the home run contest. The U.S.A. and Selig ain't backin' down at all.

The crux of the matter is that Cuban succes in baseball is a manifestaion of the isolation upon which they live. They have thrived upon that isolation by winning medals against teams that are not even near throwing against them their best talent. Did they ever face the best pitchers in the Caribbean (aka Pedro)? No. Did they ever have to pitch to the likes of a Barry Bonds? No. Did they ever face a line-up like the one the U.S.A. major league ball players could put together? No, Have they ever faced a tandem of pitchers that would include: Roger Clemens, Greg Madux, C.C. Sabathia (gotta have a good starting lefty in there), Billy Wagner, Trevor Hofman, Dontrele Wilis, Mark Buerle, and Roy Halladay, to only name a few?

There are several other big names I didn't even mention, much bigger than the one's even cited (Smoltz, Wood, Prior) - no other country could boast of. No?

In a seven game series, no one beats the U.S.A. in baseball. An Olympic-style format, it is certainly possible, but it would mean less, given the fact that the U.S. amateur national team has been so dominant over the last few years and was denied the chance at a bid in the 2004 Olympics because of one loss to Mexico.

- In a seven game series, no one beats the U.S.A. in baseball.

Being American, let's not go that far. It sure does happen year in and year out in the Olympics. I mean we lost to Mexico before we could even qualify. This was with a team of top prospects.

Also, remember the New York Yankees lost to the Hanshin Tigers and then Hanshin tied the Devil Rays.

- The crux of the matter is that Cuban succes in baseball is a manifestaion of the isolation upon which they live.

Also, being an Orioles' fan, I can't deny the fact that Cuban National Team just plain out beat the Orioles at Camden Yards in 1999. The Orioles were a group of 25 major league players, so no, I don't buy your arugment. So, no, the success in international baseball is not due to the manifestation of isolation they live in, it's an escape from the social misery they live under Fidel Castro.

- There are several other big names I didn't even mention, much bigger than the one's even cited (Smoltz, Wood, Prior) - no other country could boast of. No?

I am sure you haven't heard of the Dominican Republic and Japan have you? Or do you just live in a USA ethnocentric baseball world? I am from the United States, too, but aren't ethnocentric to the fact there are other major league quality leagues out there.