Japan Through to the Final

Looking at the game highlights, it looks like it was Fukudome who put Japan on the board first there in the 7th with a two run home run to right. It's about time Fukudome did something.

Immediately after that, the Korean pitcher hit Ogasawara on the knee. The home plate umpire came out and gave him a firm warning not to be throwing at batters.

I got home from taking the kids ice skating at this point and turned on the TV to see Satozaki bring Ogasawara home on a double that bounced over the fense in center. (Looking it up, it appears that Ogasawara had advanced to second on a wild pitch just before that.)

With Japan now up 3-0, Korea changed pitchers. This pitcher only faced Kawasaki, and got him to ground out, advancing Satozaki to third.

Another pitching change, but Japan had gotten their momentum going. Yakult's Miyamoto drives in Satozaki with a base hit. Lotte's Nishioka follows with a blooper to shallow center. Then Ichiro slaps the ball to left to core Miyamoto, putting Japan up 5-0.

With the rain pouring down in the top of the 8th, Yokohama's Tamura clears the center field fense (by just a couple of rows) with a solo home run putting Japan up 6-0.

Uehara was pitching the bottom of the 7th, and I assume he was the starter. Yabuta threw the 8th, getting into a little bit of a jam. And Otsuka (Ohtsuka) has come on to throw the 9th.

Ohtsuka walked a batter with one out, Korea sending in a pinch runner. But Ohtsuka went right after the next two batters, striking out the first looking. With two strikes on the next batter, and the runner going, Otsuka bounced his fourth pitch up there, the runner taking second without a throw. A foul ball later, Otsuka gets the last batter swinging at a pitch in the dirt.

It looks like "anything" didn't happen. Japan moves on to the final.

Yes! I'm so happy! Koji Uehara pitched sooo good! And Fukudome finaly came through and started the rally in the 7th!

Uehara was looking sharper and sharper as the game went on. Pitched fabulously the whole night, and would probably continue to pitch a complete game with over 10 Ks.

He dominated with his control and his pitches were just extremely sharp. The fastballs and forkball was amazing.

The third time revealed the truth. Japanese baseball is no joke. Now it's time for Daisuke and friends to beat Cuba.

Despite the loss in the semi-finals, I'm still quite happy with Korea's performance in the WBC. They showed the world that Korean baseball is among the elite.

Korea and Japan have been a great story for the WBC. Players such as Lee Seung-Yeop and Park Jin Man have shown what they can do on the big stage. Couldn't ask for more, especially since everyone assumed it was going to be the USA vs. Dominican in the finals.

Anyone see the Korean third baseman after catching Ichiro's pop up in the top of the 9th say somthing to Team Japan's dugout and then tossing the ball back to Ichiro and saying somthing back to Ichiro?

And Peter Gammons did a story about Tomo Ohka (1 of my favorite pitcher's) and Sun Woo Kim getting into a Brawl. Pretty good stuff. Great game, though. Can't wait till the Cuba game.

Yeah, watched that on the ESPN broadcast when they showed the replay of it. Ichiro did well to ignore it, didn't even look at the punk who threw it!

Ichiro had the last laugh! Did you see how pumped Ichiro was after he was interviewed by the ESPN reporter and ran over to the crowd. That guy is usually as cool as they come, I've never seen him so animated! Obviously meant a lot to him.

Yeah, he's a nobody trying to disrespect the single season hitting champ. Pretty sad. Ichiro did well just to keep marching on. Otsuka also did a fine job by not throwing the ball at his head in the final at bat, too. Shows who the classier team is. Ogasawara kept his cool when he was hit, too.

I'm glad we don't have to hear those thundersticks and the same Korean chant over and over again. Any single chant like that gets old very fast.

Korean fans and team Korea, I don't say negative things about you guys because of history or where you're from. I say it because I enjoy sportsmanship and knowledgable fans. Seo planted that flag on the mound, Kim threw at Ogasawara, Jyung tried to show up Ichiro, and your captain celebrates way too much after fairly average plays.

Ichiro's quote was taken out of context. Not that ESPN hasn't helped fuel the hate by constantly using the Korean media translation. You guys made yourselves look like fools by booing him when you weren't cheering for flies and grounders like they were upper deck homers. A person can tell when others aren't true baseball fans just by the way they react to anything that makes contact with the bat.

The Korean team may have played better than expected, but the attitude of some of its players was not at the MLB or Japanese players' level. I went to the game in Angel Stadium, and many Korean fans were very disruptive and disrespectful towards the Japanese and American fans. (Most Americans were supporting Japan because of the long history between the two baseball organizations.) I know there may be some nice Korean fans, but the bad ones certainly outnumbered them inside the stadium, and afterwards outside the ballpark.

I am glad Japan won because it is definitely time for the world to see the high level of baseball played by the Japanese athletes. I am going to the game tonight, and I am going for Japan all the way!

Uehara looked absolutely dominant out on the mound. It seemed like it was only a matter of time before our offense finally went on a rampage. Wonderful game.

Team Korea may have won two against us, but Japan won the one that absolutely mattered.

Is there going to be a consolation game before the championship? Because the Korea-Dominican Republic matchup would be another great matchup itself.

I just want to say that yesterday's game, Korea vs. Japan, was a really good game. Japanese players were superb in every inning. I am just depressed that Korea lost, but in the meantime, I am happy that 2 Asian teams were in the semi-finals. We had a very good tournament: 6 straight wins without an error. ^-^

I believe that we think of Japan as a rival, and having a rival is a good thing because we both improve trying to beat each other. But, there was that one player who always p***ed me off, Ichiro. I love him as a baseball player for the Seattle Mariners because of his world class baseball skills, but as a human being, he is the worst. He has the worst temper, and the worst sportsmanship. Before and after every single baseball game, he has something to say.

Ichiro said things similar to these:

• Before 1st game: Japan will beat Korea so badly that Korea would never think about catching up to Japan in another 30 years in baseball.
• After 2nd game: Japan's loss to Korea is Japansese baseball's worst shame.
• Before 3rd game: There are many ways to defeat Korea becuase Korea has many weaknesses.
• After 3rd game: The right team won the game. (He says it like the last 2 games which Korea won were just a fluke.)

There are many Korean Ichiro fans, but after this tournament, I m pretty sure he lost all of them. Ichiro thinks Korea is nothing compared to Japan. Even after losing twice, he has something to say. He should really shut his mouth up before he ruins his career.

Great result at the third attempt - the law of averages is rarely beaten!

Quality pitching and the Japanese bats woke up at last. I thought Oh made good choices throughout the game, too.

Bring on those Cubans! Should be a great game!

Anyone think that Tamura's catch will be in the Sportscenter top ten?

Format needs some fixing. It's sad that a team goes 6-0 in the first two rounds and loses one game to a team 3-3 and they're done.

Congatulations to Japan and Korea!

- Format needs some fixing. It's sad that a team goes 6-0 in the first two rounds and loses one game to a team 3-3 and they're done.

I suppose you could say the same thing about a team who goes something like 132-30 in a regular MLB season and then loses to the wild card team in the playoffs.

How exactly would you change the format to prevent this sort of thing happening next time? Would you have a three or five game series to determine the winner? How exaxctly would that work with the limited time available?

Personally, one change I would like to see would be the introduction of reverse matchups, with semi-finals between teams from either pool. I think it's ludicrous that Japan and Korea had to actually play each other three times.

Any other ideas?

- Format needs some fixing. It's sad that a team goes 6-0 in the first two rounds and loses one game to a team 3-3 and they're done.

That's how round-robin format works. Korea's 6 - 0 record during pool play has NOTHING to do with the semi-finals game. Check the WBC rules, that's the way round-robin works.

That catch was unbelievable. It's the second time he's done that. I'm glad he didn't get injured. Korea's right fielder and shortstop are pretty solid from what I've seen, too. That right fielder has been very annoying to this Japanese fan throughout the entire WBC. Hehe. The defense displayed by both teams was fantastic last night.

Very satisfying to have Ichiro, Uehara, Fukudome, et al through to the final after the vicissitudes of the earlier rounds. It seems like poetic justice for the U.S. to be out of things, too. However, I agree with the writer of an earlier thread here, that something in the format needs fixing. Since Korea beat Japan twice over the course of the tournament, it is disappointing that they are not in the final round.

My nails will be bitten down to the quick watching Cuba vs. Nihon - tough matchup.

The WBC has been a fabulous introduction to the world of some of NPB's stars and an eye-opener to many that baseball is indeed a world sport. I hope this really takes off. All my Asian students and many of the other profs here at UBC in Vancouver were totally wrapped up in it, and they are not even baseball fans to begin with. Monday night we'll probably have a big party watching the game. And then it's on to the Hanshin Tigers for the regular season. Serendipity!

That inning was unbelievable, and shows how crazy Petco Field can be on batters. First JB Lee hit that ball way out that Tamura nearly killed himself getting with that amazing catch in the left foul corner, then Seung-Yeop Lee hit a huge fly ball that Ichiro caught in the other corner, and Hee-Seop Choi hit a huge fly ball that Aoki got a few feet shy of the warning track.

All three of those would have been out of many ballparks. Uehara was truly magnificent, as he has been all through the WBC, and I would never claim otherwise. But I hope he realizes he got a little lucky with a few of those fly balls. (Not to say that the Japanese hitters weren't hampered by the field too, of course.)

It was a great game, though. Absolutely great. I liked that the timing was such that it could be watched live by both the Japanese and American audiences without one or the other resorting to staying up all night, as a Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon game. And for once, finally, ESPN didn't screw up the coverage.

I agree about the Korean shortstops, too - Park was pretty amazing throughout the entire WBC.

I think Uehara was challenging the Korean batters to hit it out of the park, and he knew they really didn't have the power or technique to do it. In my mind, Choi and Lee were the only guys who were serious threats to hitting it out. You know Lee has to be happy he doesn't have to face Koji in the regular season.

It was a good game. I would have to agree that the format of the tourney needs some tweaking, nonetheless it's okay for a first time around.

I did get a kick out of Joe Morgan butchering up names on both teams.

If history repeats itself Daisuke will be shutting down the Cubans again.

Great game. Uehara was positively dealing out there. Tamura with the incredible catch. And Fukudome with the dam-breaking jack. Awesome smackdown of a team that I would've liked more but for their punk antics. They're a fun team to watch. Now if they can just learn basic sportsmanship.

Indeed the Korean team needs lessons in that area. One shouldn't display one's chip all the time. It would have been better if they had ignored Ichiro's racism.

Great game and Japan finally has the big inning that it's capable of. Great defense on both sides and Korea finished the tournament with 0 errors, zero! That's amazing, congratulations.

Then again, Korea's been training together since January 1, so maybe that's not too much of a surprise. I wonder how this will affect Korean players' upcoming seasons (and it'll be interesting to see how long the Leo Mazzoni effect will last with the Korean pitchers, too).

Uehara was simply unbelievable! He threw very high percentage of pitches for strikes, but they had such good location and movement that the Koreans couldn't touch him! Very impressed. I wonder if this could possibly have any effect on NPB in reducing "asobi-dama" (waste pitches) and letting the pitchers attack more. And Japan still has Matsuzaka, Watanabe, and the entire bullpen for the finals against Cuba, while Cuba's used up their two best starters in the semi-final win against the Dominicans. This will be a very interesting final, but a disaster final for MLB.

I have to say that I thought taking Imae out for Fukudome was a mistake at the time. A text to my friend went like this:

Fukudo...WHAT!? i may live to eat these words.

His reply:

eat 'em

And they have never tasted so good!

I wonder if Hideki Matsui and Tadahito Iguchi are regretting NOT participating in the tournament now.

Considering the tremendous excitement, support, and quality of action that the WBC has generated, probably many ballplayers - Japanese, American, and others - will quickly jump on board next time.

I forget which news site reported it, but I read that Iguchi watched the game and fell asleep after Fukudome's homer.

What a lot of fun, and my guys (Team Japan) won this one, too. Team Korea, despite those chips on some of their shoulders (insecurity, quite obviously, and completely unnecessary: they are a great team from a great country!) kept the issue in doubt till deep into the game again, but Japan was the one to break through this time.

I know we had this one in the bag, safe, right after the third out in the bottom of the ninth was recorded.

Win or lose against Cuba, I've enjoyed the '06 WBC about as much as I've enjoyed any series, and I had expected something barely as good as the lukewarm Olympics. The rules need a bit of tinkering, but the next one will be a much anticipated event!

- I forget which news site reported it, but I read that Iguchi watched the game and fell asleep after Fukudome's homer.

That's funny. I get this impression that Iguchi likes to sleep a lot. I remember seeing a photo of him in the Chicago Tribune sleeping in the bleachers before one of the games of the World Series. Maybe that's the real reason why he turned the WBC opportunity; it'd cut into his sleep time.

- Indeed the Korean team needs lessons in that area. One shouldn't display one's chip all the time. It would have been better if they had ignored Ichiro's racism.

Racism? Even if you accept the worst translation of his comments - that the Koreans were 30 years behind Japan in baseball - how is that racist? Inaccurate, yes, but in no way racist. Unless you're refering to something else Ichiro said that I'm unaware of.

Unfortunately your translation of Ichiro's comments is not quite right. He said he wanted to give the Koreans a beating they would remember for 30 years (this is only a rough summary - Westbaystars-san did include a very accurate translation on another thread, but the comments were made just before the Korea game. Other comments showed he was particularly displeased to lose to the Koreans - including talking about one defeat as a national shame.

Ichiro made that comment on February 21. Even he commented that he didn't mean to point at a specific country on February 24. That comment was made two weeks before the game between Japan and Korea, not just before.

It is impossible to translate his comment like Christopher's summary. Ichiro never used "Korea" nor "remember." He didn't use "national shame" either.

My mistake - I thought that he had said these things nearer the game. However, his comments were taken that way so I suspect that this is how they were intended. He certainly didn't issue any retraction or clarification.

Derek Jeter was interviewed before WBC. He mentioned Japan and Mexico about the second round. The next day a Korean newspaper reported that Korea was "ignored" [Chosun.com]. Of course it was not his intention.

In front of Korean nationalism, everything is meaningless.

Ichiro never bothers with the media. He knows too much how his words get twisted around in the media to even try to "clarify" anything anymore. In his original comment, he never mentions Korea, and yet the mistranslated quote is the one everyone keeps bringing up. For an accurate translation of his 30-year comment, try here [Detect-O-Vision].

- Unfortunately your translation of Ichiro's comments is not quite right. He said he wanted to give the Koreans a beating they would remember for 30 years (this is only a rough summary - Westbaystars-san did include a very accurate translation on another thread, but the comments were made just before the Korea game. Other comments showed he was particularly displeased to lose to the Koreans - including talking about one defeat as a national shame.

Again, even if everything you say here is 100% accurate, how is it racist?

The subtext is - the natives are getting restless, we need to knock them down again and restore the natural order. What is wrong with other teams challenging Japan? This kind of comment is never what it seems on the surface and wasn't a bit of innocent goading.

You know, that newspaper is the most conservative in Korea. Other media were much more harsh so I avoided them. You should check them yourself if you call Ichiro a racist.

Ichiro is a victim of stalkers.

To enjoy a sports event, I think it is necessary to have morals and manners.

- The subtext is - the natives are getting restless, we need to knock them down again and restore the natural order.

What an assumption! "Subtext"? You mean, "your interpretation." Let's not confuse the two.

And what is your interpretation one hit? It is well known that Ichiro's political views tend towards the nationalist side of things.

Kappa - what are you referring to? The subtext comes from the translation provided by WestbayStars. If you have a different one please do post it.

Ichiro is a proud Japanese for sure, but his remark is not racist or disrespectful. Anyone with access to Japanese can tell from the interview that he's simply making a statement about how well he hopes his team would do in the WBC. The emphasis is on himself and Japan, not on his opponents. It is a passing comment made light-heartedly. I bet he didn't foresee that his one little comment in the entire interview would get blown way out of proportion by the Korean media when he didn't even say it with Korea in mind.

However, if you insist on seeing his comment as racist and offensive, nothing will convince you otherwise.

Maybe you are right and I am reading too much into it. However, I have seen a lot of these innocent remarks in Japan - which initially seem innocent but are not so innocent on later examination. This is just that sort of remark - with a fair amount of ambiguity and deniability built into it. The nationalist right, in particular, is very good at this sort of thing.

The perception in Japan is that it was aimed at Korea as well - this is not just a Korean perception. There are nationalist currents active in Japan as well as Korea and this remark played very much to them. Whatever, the intent it was not an innocent remark. I have yet to see any clarification or retraction from Ichiro, and given how much controvesy that the remark has caused, I would have expected this very rapidly - at the very least to confirm it was not aimed specifically at Korea. This silence is very instructive don't you think?

Thought I'd weigh in with some congrats for Team Japan. Well done!

On Ichiro, I think there was a subtle message. I have never heard a major leaguer say they are going to give the Yankees a drubbing that they will remember for 30 years. It would be very bad form to blurt out that he wanted to kick Korea's derriere. But I am sure that is what he meant. The still waters run very deep where the current beneath is very strong.　　I am sure the Nationalists loved it, which is regrettable.

We have our own problems on the other side of the Pacific, so I will not elaborate further. Great baseball in the WBC.

Again, he NEVER said that (to kick Korean butt, or whatever have you, so they would remember it for 30 years).

Here's the more accurate translation from DETECT-O-VISION:

"I would like to win in ways to make our opponents think, 'we got 30 years before we catch up to Japan'."

Coupling this with the way he said it in the interview (see YouTube video), I don't know how anyone could construe it as anti-Korean. I wonder why it is that whenever someone talks about Ichiro's racism, they never refer to the original quote? They always say 'rough summary' or 'the gist of it.' If you want to accuse someone of racism, at least provide the accurate quotation.

He even said that he wants to make the "opponents Japan beat" feel like they won't be able to beat Japan again for 30 years.

So, with that clause, Korea wasn't even qualify in the statement as soon as they won the 1st round game against Japan.

Though, I'm sure Ichiro meant all Asian teams, he didn't make the statement that harsh at all.

I understand the Koreans have reasons to be suspicious of discrimination from the Japanese. But seriously, what Ichiro said was arrogant at worst. The Japanese media, like the Korean media, like sensational stories, but trust me, Ichiro = anti-Korean is a Korean perception. Ichiro's comment is vague precisely because it is a passing comment made in a press conference. And why would he want to retract it if he didn't think he said anything wrong? Ichiro's too proud to bother with the media, and I bet that he couldn't care less about how the Koreans think of him.

You want to interpret that as arrogant or a personal flaw, that's fine, but his comment is not anti-Korean by any stretch. I don't know Ichiro personally, so he could be a racist in real life. What do I know? However, do you really want to bring politics into sports? Is it really wise to stir up the whole nation, like the Korean press is doing, over something as trivial as a passing remark from a baseball player? Don't you think you should aim higher than using Ichiro as a scapegoat for the evils of Japanese nationalim?

I see so much hate between the Koreans and Japanese in various forums, and I'm wondering who is benefiting from all this? Like you said, the nationalist governments of Korea and Japan are loving it, so are the sensational media. Does Ichiro suffer from all this publicity? He's probably as popular as ever among non-Korean fans, and in a short while, no one will remember his remark, but everyone will remember the hate.

Are you sure that the translation is opponents? It could well be the opposition or opponent. The plural is not common in Japanese. This is what I mean by these seemingly innocent comments having ambiguity and deniability. There isn't a definitive translation as such and this is where the problem lies. In the context of WBC at the time the only realistic opponent was Korea. The other teams weren't really considered challengers.

Given the sensitivity of the situation the comment was better off left unsaid. The fact that it was said and left unclarified by anyone is disturbing. Given the ability of Japanese and Korean people to fly off at each other at the drop of a hat and the inability of anyone to keep sport out of politics, sportsmen have to be very careful about what they say. Japanese sportsmen are normally very careful to say nothing so this is an unusual exception.

I am not sure that I understand what you mean by using Ichiro as a scapegoat for the evils of Japanese nationalism. He made a controversial comment and as he is very media aware I am pretty sure he knew what effect he would have. The correct approach is to clarify the comment or to even retract it given that it caused so much controvesy. Ichiro gave many interviews to the press after that comment but didn't do either so I don't think we can say he's too proud to bother with the press.

Ichiro doesn't bother with how the media interprets what he says. He's never tried to clarify things written in tabloids. He ignores them.

You're free to think there is a hidden agenda to what he said, which to me is just an innocent remark that got twisted into something bigger by the media. It's pretty clear we're not going to see eye to eye on this.

The thing with subtext, though, is it is open to all kinds of interpretations, so if you insist on reading the subtext, then you have to accept that it is only one of the many possible interpretations. You don't know Ichiro in real life, neither do I, so it's pretty pointless for us to talk about his character, which seems to be what you're driving at by talking about his "intentions." I read/watched the interview, and to me, he didn't do anything wrong and didn't need to retract his comment. I don't read the subtext because I think there is none, but you're welcome to believe there is. That's the end of my contribution to this topic.

It's always nice to discuss something with someone who thinks and makes reasoned comments - so many thanks, I very much enjoyed discussing things with you. You are right that the subtexts can be interpreted in different ways and this is my point precisely. As the PR manager in my old company used to say, "with the press there is no offhand remark." So we have a ambiguous statement which gets interpreted a certain way by both Japanese and Korean press outlets. The perception is more important here than the actual substance. Other meanings or circumstances become irrelevant in the face of the main interpretation.

We may not know Ichiro in real life so we have to form judgements on him from what he says and does. This is why you have to be careful with the press - you need to make sure you do not lay yourself open to misinterpretation. Another quote from my PR manager, "every microphone is always live. If you're in the public eye you're never out of it." Ichiro could have clarified his remark and corrected the misinterpretation - others have done so. In fact it was very necessary to correct this remark as it also drew criticism in Japan. He didn't try to do anything at all but let the misunderstanding continue. This is the sort of action from someone who doesn't really object to how it has been interpreted. I would like it if Ichiro had the grace to clarify his remark, but knowing what I do, I think that this is highly unlikely. This, unfortunately, was not an innocent remark no matter how casually it was delivered.

- Are you sure that the translation is opponents? It could well be the opposition or opponent.

Are you sure that it is not? If it could go both ways, why do you intend to see the worst possible way the sentence could be interpreted?

- He made a controversial comment and as he is very media aware I am pretty sure he knew what effect he would have.

Really? You made it sound like he had spent tons of time scheming and planing what he would say in one of the MANY press conferences he attended just so he could p*** off all Koreans. Seriously, do you honestly believe he cares that much about Korea? Guess you do.

Ok, I'm really done.

Agreed, this is crazy. Take his quote how you like, but to assume he is a "nationalist" and had made "racist comments" is a huge stretch, and the burden of proof is on the accuser!

Unfortunately, you got nuttin' man.

For what it's worth, Ichiro's "patriotism" has been criticiezd on air by pundits at Mainichi and Asahi news groups, well known left leaning media conglamorates. There is a large swath of the Japanese population who are very pro-China and pro-Korea and view any sign of Japanese patriotism as a sign that Japan's returning to its imperialist past. But, the English media loves to paint Japan as a right wing haven, go figure.

It may also be that the foreign media reports from a different perspective. I see reports of a right wing bent in the government. Polls and reports of the Japanese public suggest the large swath you describe.

Be thankful you don't have the Christian Taliban influencing your government.

See also this thread.

For the record, I don't think Ichiro is any more racist than Davidson is. For clarity, neither are racist in my book. Both made errors in judgement. Ichiro's comment (mangled translation of an opaque meaning) was a bit harsh for a sportsman, other than a boxer. Like Davidson's call, Ichiro's quote has been interpreted by a broad spectrum of the public, based on their own perspective or ilk.

- In the context of WBC at the time the only realistic opponent was Korea. The other teams weren't really considered challengers.

At international games, the result of the games between Korea and Taiwan was 5 wins 5 losses, Taiwan had won 4 games in a row before the WBC. Notably, Taiwan won the game in the preliminary round of the Olympics.

- It is well known that Ichiro's political views tend towards the nationalist side of things.

It's well known is it now? I've lived in Japan for years and this is the first I've heard of it. Anyone else?

Well, someone actually uploaded the interview where Ichiro made the 30-year remark back in February. Why don't you see it for yourself if he's making a racist remark or the racist "subtext"?

Link: YouTube

Lurker and others: you are/were arguing with a troll! Let it rot its course.

Japanese nationalism rightfully stirs up a lot of emotion in neighboring Asian countries because of what this nationalism begot the region no more than two generations ago. Statements like Ichiro's could be taken by some as would (alright, a very far fetched hypothetical and not quite an exact parallel) Israelis would from a German star player making similar comments on defeating Israel - "a beating they'll remember for 30 years," or something to that effect. Not necessarily overtly racist, but still grossly insensitive. Many Japanese are openly unapologetic about their past "nationalism."

Why do you assume that trolling was going on? I don't think you quite understand the seriousness of this. Through colonial occupation and the war the Japanese caused a massive amount of suffering in Korea. They also acquired a view of Koreans as second class which still persists today. This, of course, is not the attitude of everyone, but is the attitude of a lot of the establishment and the conservative section of Japanese society. These people have a lot of influence with the government, and to some extent shape its views. Thus even though Japanese public figures have apologized for their past offences (reluctantly for the most part), they then say and do things which still cause offence and give the impression that the apologies are insecere (and in some cases they are).

Thus Koreans are constantly reminded that the Japanese regard them as second class and not worthy of consideration. It was the case that Korean products did not sell well in Japan because they were Korean not because they were poor quality. So when a figure of the stature of Ichiro makes a comment like the thirty year comment it has enormous impact because he has such a high profile. Ichiro belongs to the conservative strand in Japanese society (though this is not to say he is an out and out rightist - I very much doubt he is). He made a comment in typical conservative fashion which was ambiguous and open to interpretation.

However, these comments, of which I have seen and heard a lot from other people, are never made innocently. They are made with the intent of reminding Koreans that they are second class. At the moment Japan's foreign relations are a mess. The Japanese government is so incompetent in foreign affairs that it is in dispute with almost all its neighbours. What is not needed is a freelancer like Ichiro making inflamatory comments, and there are too many of those around. A comment like Ichiro's does not help the situation but adds a bit more fuel to the fire. It doesn't even matter what words Ichiro actually used because the most offensive interpretation is what is generally accepted.

This is why the comment is so important - this isn't a minor issue, but something with significant impact. As these comments raise the temperature they also make it difficult for the reasonable people in both governments (of which there are some) to cool things down and work to find common ground.

This is not to suggest that Ichiro is part of some conservative conspiracy - I don't think he is. However, his outlook is conservative and as such casually racist (I am afraid that is the way it works). His attitude after the other games against Korea also betrayed his conservative stance. Maybe now you can understand the seriousness of this affair.

Wow, Christopher - I think you'd better stick to baseball.

So now you have Ichiro the freelance foreign affairs operative inflaming regional tension with inflammatory racist remarks.

I'm sorry, but what I saw and heard was an enthusiastic athlete engaging in a bit of boosterism for his own side. Nothing more, nothing less. You could see it on his face. That's all it was. He's a proud Japanese who loves to win. Why do you have to overanalyze it and see something that just isn't there?

(And while we're on the subject of Japan's foreign relations, I think any sensible person would acknowledge that there's fault on all sides in this complicated power struggle which basically boils down to who controls the region in the coming decades. Are you so naive to believe that if Koizumi stopped visting Yasukuni, the textbooks were totally honest about what happened in Nanjing, and the Diet passed a resolution expressing its utmost sorrow and remorse for Japan's militaristic past - that the Koreans and Chinese wouldn't still find something to complain about? Leave Ichiro out of it. He's not a politician or a diplomat, and he shouldn't feel the slightest ounce of pressure to clarify or apologize for his remarks.)

- I think any sensible person would acknowledge that there's fault on all sides in this complicated power struggle which basically boils down to who controls the region in the coming decades. Are you so naive to believe that if Koizumi stopped visting Yasukuni, the textbooks were totally honest about what happened in Nanjing, and the Diet passed a resolution expressing its utmost sorrow and remorse for Japan's militaristic past - that the Koreans and Chinese wouldn't still find something to complain about?

Yes, it is about a power struggle, and in China's sense, a dubious attempt to replace Communist dogma with nationalism through hatemongering/victimization as a means to control/unify a disparate country.

Having said that, if all you outlined were done, at least Japan would seize the moral high ground in the dynamics. Plus, it is the right thing to do IMHO from a humanistic view. No people are free of errors and evils. Humanity cannot evolve without learning from its past mistakes, and the first step in learning and changing is to acknowledge and contemplate the truth and begin turning in a new direction.

Having said that, the environment created by China makes such already difficult introspection and contrition by the Japanese impossible to do. China does not want recognition, learning, and change by Japan as the West demanded of Germany.

You may chose to see Ichiro's remarks one way, but the Koreans saw it another way. As I said, the remark was ambiguous but caused a lot of controvesy. As a remark from a sports team captain it was unusual - I have heard many of them over the years and can't recall anything quite like the Ichiro remark (well maybe Tony Greig in the 1970s, and he apologized). There is being proud and there is being offensive, and Ichiro was the latter.

When you put on the uniform of your country you become a representative of the country. You have a responsibility to act in a way which will not disgrace or bring disrespect to your country. A team captain has a role above this as a diplomatic representative. He will be invited to speak and comment more than the other members of the team as a representative of his country. When you listen to others, they all make fairly innocuous remarks and show respect to their opponents.

Of course as you point out, even if Japan does everything in your reply it will not take away tensions, but as Ed Kranepool states, it will be a start. Ichiro's comments and attitude took things the other way and every little incident makes things harder. It would help greatly if Ichiro did apologise or clarify, and it's something a real team captain would have done by now.

OK. We're going way off topic and into politics, which I don't think that this site is going to impact in any way whatsoever. Still, the discussion has been interesting, and everyone well behaved. Thank you all.

I've got just the following to add to the conversation, then Christopher is welcome to have the final say, and this thread will be closed. No more posts will be approved regarding Ichiro's statement.

I don't understand how it is that Ichiro should be required to make a correction about his statement. If a retraction is required, it would be to the media organization who conducted the original interview. However, that organization did nothing wrong. It was other organizations with their own agenda who twisted Ichiro's words - and those organizations will not post a retraction, even if one is given directly to them. If such publications do run a retraction, it won't be on the front page, but hidden in some obscure location and worded vaguely.

The Boston Globe is a good example of how the mainstream press works to further the adgenda of a particular group. Last November, they published an article on the front page vilifying the state's Chief Information Officer with inuendo of wrong doing. His only crime was deciding to use a superior technology over a Microsoft technology, and the Boston Globe, on command from Redmond, put a huge smear campaign on their front page. In December, after verification from numourous sources that everything printed on the front page of the Globe was incorrect, the Boston Globe did print a notice that the CIO was cleared of all charges (charges that were only made by the article's sponsors), but the notice was made on a Saturday (lowest circulation day), in an obscure section of the paper where it would be easilly overlooked. The media outlets that are spreading the hatred for Ichiro, if forced to run a retraction (and the Boston Globe was pretty much forced to by an upset Open Source community), will see to it that the retraction reaches as few people as possible, and will be worded vaguely enough that it won't resolve anything.

Ichiro doesn't speak with the Japanese press for the most part. I've actually seen him interviewed more this year than since long before he went to Seattle because he will talk with former team mate Sasaki, who is a reporter now for Nikkan Sports. But for the most part, Ichiro doesn't have any fondness for an industry that put a bounty on a nude photograph of himself. He won't talk with the Japanese press for the most part, and I don't blame him. And any statement he makes with the media agencies that are the root cause of this problem will be twisted further out of proportion.

There is another ball player who is often abused by the tabloid press, Kiyohara. Unlike Ichiro's tactic of ignoring them, Kiyohara often brings legal action against these tabloids - which only have the effect of furthing the tabloid circulation. The numerous libel suits taken against Friday and others have had zero effect on getting them to stop their abuse of Kiyohara. The tabloids know their audience, they know that Kiyohara sells, and they know that they can make more by publishing false stories about Kiyohara than they have to pay in damages for them. Now, add a political adgenda to that formula, and no amount of retractions or libel suits are going to get these publications to stop the hate mongering.

Do I know what the solution is to this problem? No, I don't. The only thing anyone can do is point out the incorrect information being spread as FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) by the hate mongers. Christopher, you've helped disprove the FUD by bringing it to our attention. For that I am greatful.

Now, to Christopher, one final word on this, and the discussion is closed. Thank you all for your patience and uncovering the truth behind this FUD.

Michael - thank you so much for allowing me a final say.

You are right about the appalling nature of the Japanese press and I can well understand Ichiro's reluctance to talk to them. However, not all the press is that bad and a clarification would receive wide coverage among the more respectable organs. These clarifications can work very well - I am reminded of Hoshino-san's conference where he scotched rumours that he would join the Giants. Also in more of a tabloid news item, the Tigers outfielder Hamanaka was able to stop speculation that he was involved with a female volleyball player. I believe that, as he is in the position to do a lot of good by clarifying his comments, this is what Ichiro should do. What's more it would show him to be a true gentleman.

I was very pleased to see Japan win the WBC. While I am a USA fan, I have spent a lot of time in Japan and love both the country and its people.

The Japanese team played exceptionally well and Sadaharu Oh did a great job of managaing the team. I have often told my friends that baseball in Japan is very good. My favorite Japanese team is the Orix Blue Wave.

I am a big St. Louis Cardinals fan. So Taguchi, a former "Blue Wave" player, should have a good chance at a starting position in the outfield this year. He came through in the clutch many times last year for the Cardinals.

Again, congratulations, Japan Baseball!

I just want to say that I think Ichiro just got carried away and didn't mean to slam Korean or Taiwanese baseball.

Whatever the case may be, and I understand the historical background to a lot of the bitterness between Japan and Korea, it pains me a lot when I see arguments such as the ones in this thread. I have been very fortunate to have lived in both countries and I love each of them tremendously. I hope you all get the same chance I did. I will always root for Korea when they aren't playing the United States and when Japan and Korea faceoff I don't take sides. I just want the players involved to show their best stuff.

However, I still don't understand the appeal of Winter Sonata. An utter bore to me. But I feel that way about most Japanese dramas, too. Call me dumb, I guess.